Please keep all posts about the race. Many posts about DSD athletes competing in the 800 have been deleted as they are totally off topic. DSD or interesex athletes aren't allowed in the 800 so no DSD athletes were in the race today. Please stay on topic.
That's not true. If you want people to stay on topic, which I think is a legitimate request that's totally appropriate in this case, then you shouldn't make false claims like this.
XY DSD athletes are allowed to compete in the women's 800 (and other middle distance events) so long as they have taken medication to suppress the amount of endogenous testosterone their testes produce to below 5 nmol/L for 6 months. XY DSD athletes are not "banned" from the 400 to mile like LRC headquarters and posters keep claiming. They are still allowed to compete in middle-distance events if they suppress their endogenous T for a time.
If an XY DSD athlete is suppressing T, they are free to compete in any/all women's events - and there is no way the public would know about their sex or hormone status. For good reason, WA does not publish personal medical information about XY DSD athletes competing in women's MD events who are complying with the rules now in place.
Thank you for reaffirming this travesty that keeps happening!
LRC should be standing up for women's rights, and should not be trying to cover this up.
Has anyone ever seen an 800 before where someone goes out in 1st, then goes to last and comes back to win it?
LRC Note. The thread initially asked can she challenge athing mu but we want to turn the emphasis on to whether it's ever happened before 1st to last to 1st.
I know this doesn't quite meet all the criteria, and the circumstances were very different, but Heather Dorniden went from first to last to first during that famous race when she fell.
I'm sure there are better answers than that, and I'd be interested to hear them.
John Woodruff did something similar in the 1936 Olympic 800m final. Running in second place behind Phil Edwards of Canada, Woodruff suddenly found himself in a box. His response was to slow down and let nearly the entire field pass him. He then sped up again and won the race.
"As many know on here, there are four basic tactics to win 800m, T&F: 1) Go hard from the pistol, take the lead, race positive splits and manage gradual deacceleration. 2) Race in the pack (2 through 7) along the rail and hope something opens up for a late move over final 150m. 3) Race in the pack (2 through 7). Race wide in lane 2 or 3. Take the lead when one feels up to it. 4) Race in last place through 500m. Go for it the final 300m. This may mean deaccelerating less than everyone, may mean racing at an even pace or may mean a change in speed. Mary Moraa may have intended to lead the entire race. No doubt anaerobic difficulties gave her a scare around 300m to 350m into the race. She slowed enough to return to aerobic state."
Agreed, I think most are wildly overstating her 'clueless' approach and you are likely spot on - she would have known that the very fast first 200 by everyone chasing her was destructive for everyone (including herself) so arguably from the energy system POV she was actually the smartest of all by letting herself drift back to last. Position wise it made it challenging but by the time it came to last 150m she didn't lack for spaces to overtake anyone.
LRC Note: Rojo started his own thread on the race entitled, "That was the CRAZIEST & DUMBEST 800 tactics I've ever seen from a competitor who won an elite 800. Mary Moraa FTW!!" He has merged it with Weldon's thread as he didn't want people to think he was disrespecting Moraa and we only need 1 thread on it.
Heart of gold.Congrats. What a talent. If she gets proper coaching, watch out.
I can't believe it.
She went out like like 25-26, then probably ran like 31 and wen back to nearly last at 500, then came storming bacn and won it. I'm going to watch it again and type up splits.
At 600, I was like, "What an idiot."
I still think it was the worse tactics ever but she is the winner.
Wow. What a talent.
OK. I've rewatched the race and here are her HT splits.
She lead 300, was dead last at 500 and was the winner at 800!!
13.15 12.8 (25.95 for 200 and a big lead that's HT so add .24) 30.76 (she had already given up the lead) 16.65 (dead last at 500) 14.8 28.66
Adds up perfectly to 157.82 ass an HT is supposed to be off by .24. Add 0.24 to 1st 100.
So she went out super hard - 26.2. Then takes a break and runs 47.41 for 300 and then closes it out in 43.46.
I have a hard time believing this (the legitimacy of Moraa).
To run that the way she did she is in 1.53 high/ 1.54 flat shape - the amount of extra energy she used and the strength needed to overcome the entire field in lane 2 in the final 200m? No, just no. That was a performance I would expect to see from a very good high school sophomore male.
The first name that sprung to mind watching this was Pamela Jelimo. I don't what the consensus is, with the continuing known issues in East Africa with respect to performance enhancing drugs, this is one I am just not buying.
Totally agree with you. It was an unnatural performance and strange behaviour immediately afterwards. I would be surprised if there isn't a retrospective change to the results within the next year.
Similar story in the men's 400m with SAMUKONGA. He finished with a sprint that took him from way back and went past the others like they were standing still. And he's come from practically nowhere. Both these performances just look unreal. Let's hope the random OOC testing is up to scratch in Zambia.
She lead 300, was dead last at 500 and was the winner at 800!!
Dude, if you really don't know that the past tense of "to lead" is "LED" (and not "lead"), I would suggest you go easy on introducing a word like "idiot" into the discussion.
Yeah, people (including me) make typos all the time, but the verb "to lead" is rather important in our sport. Surely a fellow Ivy Leaguer can learn to get it right--particularly because you can edit your posts, and don't allow us to edit ours.
Mary Moraa takes it out in 26. Then she gets passed by 400. At 500 she's in last place and then with 200 to go is in 4th and wins it on homestretech.
Horrific tactics rights?
Has anyone ever seen an 800 before where someone goes out in 1st, then goes to last and comes back to win it?
But after seeing that I'm wondering if she's the one who could challenge Athing.
LRC Note. The thread initially asked can she challenge athing mu but we want to turn the emphasis on to whether it's ever happened before 1st to last to 1st.
I had predicted here that Mary would beat Athing in Oregon but it wasn't to be.
The silver lining is that she earned a medal behind two fabulous ladies theother one being Keely Hodgkinson.
Now she is the commonwealth games champion. She did something no one had ever seen......at least the living.
Yes, Athing Mu now has competition and no disrespect to Hodgkinson. I understand that she is heartbroken.
I’m starting to be concerned for Keely. She’s starting act spoiled as if the wins should be given to her and not earned. Her demeanor after the race was poor sport. It’s like she can’t believe she gets beat running a mediocre 1:57-mid. Needs to move up and out.
Totally agree with you. It was an unnatural performance and strange behaviour immediately afterwards. I would be surprised if there isn't a retrospective change to the results within the next year.
Similar story in the men's 400m with SAMUKONGA. He finished with a sprint that took him from way back and went past the others like they were standing still. And he's come from practically nowhere. Both these performances just look unreal. Let's hope the random OOC testing is up to scratch in Zambia.
Not to burst your bubble but Bryce Deadmon ran similar splits to Samukonga (Samukonga went out a little slower 21.9 to 21.5 and picked up a tenth each 50) in a near-identical time to finish a distant 3rd in Silesia. The difference? Norman and James are better and they didn’t go out like fools like Hudson-Smith or Mweresa. Consider the competition and their competence within the race. I have no idea if Samukonga is clean or not but if you hold back to a 21.9 while your opponents go for broke (20.9) and in Hudson Smith’s case run below their level, you’re going to look good.
I have a hard time believing this (the legitimacy of Moraa).
To run that the way she did she is in 1.53 high/ 1.54 flat shape - the amount of extra energy she used and the strength needed to overcome the entire field in lane 2 in the final 200m? No, just no. That was a performance I would expect to see from a very good high school sophomore male.
The first name that sprung to mind watching this was Pamela Jelimo. I don't what the consensus is, with the continuing known issues in East Africa with respect to performance enhancing drugs, this is one I am just not buying.
Don’t think you are interpreting the race very well. First of all she went out so fast the first 250 that nobody even could draft off her. So forget that benefit for Goule/Keely. Keely had to run wide some in the first lap to establish position with Goule. Second of all, she ran marginal extra distance the entire race. The first and second turns completely in lane 1. She went to lane 2 on the straight at 500 but was pretty much mirroring Keely who did the same. By the 600 mark the race had opened up to the point she got to run most of it on the inside before at 125 to go getting to lane 2 for a straight-line finish. Keely had to pretty much do the same to launch her kick. Keely’s last 100 was a middling 15.2. Keelys close at Worlds was 14.6 in a faster race. I think she has to recalibrate and run her own race if Moraa is going to take it out this fast. It’s frying her finish.
John Woodruff did something similar in the 1936 Olympic 800m final. Running in second place behind Phil Edwards of Canada, Woodruff suddenly found himself in a box. His response was to slow down and let nearly the entire field pass him. He then sped up again and won the race.
I have a hard time believing this (the legitimacy of Moraa).
To run that the way she did she is in 1.53 high/ 1.54 flat shape - the amount of extra energy she used and the strength needed to overcome the entire field in lane 2 in the final 200m? No, just no. That was a performance I would expect to see from a very good high school sophomore male.
The first name that sprung to mind watching this was Pamela Jelimo. I don't what the consensus is, with the continuing known issues in East Africa with respect to performance enhancing drugs, this is one I am just not buying.
Don’t think you are interpreting the race very well. First of all she went out so fast the first 250 that nobody even could draft off her. So forget that benefit for Goule/Keely. Keely had to run wide some in the first lap to establish position with Goule. Second of all, she ran marginal extra distance the entire race. The first and second turns completely in lane 1. She went to lane 2 on the straight at 500 but was pretty much mirroring Keely who did the same. By the 600 mark the race had opened up to the point she got to run most of it on the inside before at 125 to go getting to lane 2 for a straight-line finish. Keely had to pretty much do the same to launch her kick. Keely’s last 100 was a middling 15.2. Keelys close at Worlds was 14.6 in a faster race. I think she has to recalibrate and run her own race if Moraa is going to take it out this fast. It’s frying her finish.
I said the same on another thread. Hodgkinson can't allow herself to be dragged through in 56-point or 57-low. She runs her best off a 58 with negative split. She's tried running that first lap hard and it hasn't worked, maybe she needs to just accept what works well for her.
