Is WERKWUHA GETACHEW a genetic male?

This solution is probably worth further consideration, but how do you actually propose sorting athletes into this camp unless they self-select for it?

An eyeball test performed by the LRC brain trust?

Will you personally be conducting the chromosomal tests and inspections of genitalia necessary to fill out the field for the proposed open 1500m?

Trans women are not women. They are men whose brains make them feel like women. Big difference.

All athletes who want to compete should have to prove they are in fact a woman through basic biological tests. Not just saying "I feel like a woman and identify as such." It shouldn't have to be this way, but large sects of society have gone psycho and bought into ideologies that completely reject basic, objective, biological realities, and have allowed cheaters to compete.

Since I don't hate women, I think their opportunities to compete have fulfilling careers in the sports they love should be protected from cheating men.

All athletes who want to compete in the female division*

I studied that thread, particularly the impressive and convincing contributions from RunRagged. I learned a lot, but had to look up a lot of words and phrases. One quibble regarding where she says: "Therefore, conditions like Semenya's tend to cluster and appear in higher than usual rates in certain populations where there's a great deal of consanguinity. This comes about because of intermarriage over many generations amongst people who all come from and live in remote, isolated areas with very little immigration in. But it also comes about because of girls and young women being raped by their fathers, uncles, brothers, cousins, grand dads. There's a lot of that in sub-Saharan Africa, unfortunately.

Is this based on facts/comparative surveys or speculation? First cousin marriage is legal in Germany. Werner von Braun (rocket engineer) married his first cousin. Hitler's crimes extended into this realm too: "Hitler was no ordinary uncle -- his relationship with his niece Geli Raubal, the daughter of his half sister, is said to have been a noxious brew of avuncular solicitude and erotic obsession that led to the young woman's death at 23." Rodney Dangerfield's lawyer was Nicky Pumpaniece as revealed to Johnny Carson in 1979. And as a Brit. (confirmed by use of phrases like "twigging to") she would know about Fanny Price, heroine of Jane Austen's "Mansfield Park." How about Charles Darwin and many other famous people?

The internets report sky high rates of consanguine marriages in the Middle East and North Africa, but limited data from Sub-Saharan Africa: "As illustrated in Fig. 1, based on detailed information accessible at the Global Consanguinity website (www.consang.net), close-kin marriage continues to be preferential in many major populations, with the influence of religion apparent in the major regional differences in consanguinity prevalence across the globe (18). Despite anthropological reports indicating consanguineous marriage throughout sub-Saharan Africa, and in populous Asian countries including Bangladesh and Indonesia, little quantitative information on consanguinity is available from these regions." Consanguinity, human evolution, and complex diseases, A. H. Bittles and M. L. Black, January 26, 2010

Wow, who knew there is a myvagina.com? Could be TMI.

She ran with some balls, that’s for sure.

No, it's not accurate to claim that in the USA persons with these sorts of XY DSDs "are ostracized (or at least, feel ostracized) very early in life and have given up even youth soccer leagues by the time they go through puberty."

In the USA, it's been the custom at least since the 1940s for children to get thorough medical checks as newborns - even when they are not born in medical settings - and for all youngsters to get regular "well child" checkups by doctors or nurses trained in pediatrics throughout infancy, the the toddler years, childhood and adolescence. In the USA, even poor kids get regular medical checkups through government-funded programs like Medicaid CHIP, WIC and Medicare for the disabled.

As result, in the USA and other countries with similar customs around childhood medical checkups, kids with these kinds of XY DSDs get diagnosed as babies or children. At the very latest, those mistakenly thought to be female in infancy and early childhood will get a diagnosis of XY DSD in puberty of adolescence when they start to visibly masculinize and they fail to develop breast buds and don't start menstruating (something most girls start doing between 10 and 13).

For the record: in the USA, it's also long been the norm for all kids and adolescents participating in sports programs - whether scholastic or extracurricular - to have to hand in a form signed by their regular personal personal HCP stating that they've been given medical clearance to engage in sports.

Maybe some individuals with these kinds of XY DSD are ostracized, and feel ostracized. But if that's the case, it's largely down to their families, close friends, local communities and their health care providers. Because seeing a person with an XY DSD on the street, in school or kitted out in sports gear, there is no way to tell they have a DSD.

Anyone spotting healthy, fit and mostly rather good-looking athletic individuals like Semenya, Niyonsaba, Seyni and Getachew out and about in the world who didn't already know who they are would never have the slightest clue that they have DSDs resulting in genital anomalies.

The only reasons the bodies of these athletes have been subject to scrutiny and some frank and unfortunately unkind commentary is

1) they are choosing to participate on the world stage in a sport where all athletes' bodies are scantily clad, on public display and subject to scrutiny and commentary that's often judgmental and unkind;

2) they are competing in the female category when it's clear to others who observe them that they are not female based on their physiques, the way they move, the kinds of sports performance they are capable of, and their particular sports-development trajectories.

“Freakshow”?

wtf? These people are human beings, with no more control over their physiology than you over yours.

I don’t pretend to know how the sports should navigate this issue, but I do know that this kind of remark has no place in the way forward.

This is a disgusting thread!! She is a woman! I notice that with Africans it's always a negative conversation. Racist..wow! Smdh

I'm more inclined to believe this is just evolution in action, nature trying to figure out what's next for our species. Of course nature doesn't care about time, so in our brief ~80 year time spans its very dramatic to us, but shouldn't be. Too many people in this world are afraid of things they don't understand for lack of education and critical thinking, so it's not surprising we're so reactionary to these people. Of course when it comes to sport and fairness this poses a problem because we put so much importance on the outcome (winning, and just as if not more so important, the money).

I think "freakshow" is an accurate term for a sport that allows biological men to compete against biological women.

People's skin color has nothing to do with them being either a biological male or a biological female.

Stop trying to pretend it's a racist issue. It's not.

Exactly. These fools screeching racism every time they hear something they don't like, impede progress on real racism.

Consanguinity doesn't just mean cousin marriage or other marriage amongst family members, though. Like I said in my original post on the other thread, consanguinity occurs

because of intermarriage over many generations amongst people who all come from and live in remote, isolated areas with very little immigration in. But it also comes about because of girls and young women being raped by their fathers, uncles, brothers, cousins, grand dads. There's a lot of that in sub-Saharan Africa, unfortunately.

Since consanguinity means coming from a common ancestor, there's a lot of it in cultures where men are allowed to have multiple wives and in other cultures where men play around outside of marriage either openly or on the DL. I imagine there's quite a bit of it in closed-off cultures where a single man will father dozens or more kids but mating with anyone outside their own narrow ethnic group and religion is verboten.

Also, DSDs are far from the only conditions that appear with unusually high prevalence in certain populations because of consanguinity due to breeding within certain populations over many generations.

For example, cystic fibrosis is very rare in people of mostly African, Asian, Pacific Islan, indigenous American and Latin American ethnic heritage. CF occurs mostly amongst white people whose parents are both of strictly white European heritage, particularly northern European heritage. Similarly, hereditary hemochromatosis is known as "the Celtic curse" because it appears so often amongst people of Irish and Scottish Gaelic descent. In other populations whose ethnic heritage is not exclusively northern European, HH is very rare.

Clearly what offends you the most is the truth. In your books, we are not entitled to know it.

How hard is it to perform a chromosome test? Then sort them out? No confusion

Ever watched the Iditarod?