There will never come a time a man competing on a womens sports team is anything but wrong. So what in the hell are you talking about? No my man it's not me being anything other than a guy with some common sense. I have no business looking to play girls in anything, why would I? And any man where the best he can do is compete vs the girls has some probems. Wow that 6-3 249 pound man beat some girls.......how stupid is that?
Cool trying to peddle.....nowadays it;s ok for men to compete vs the girls.....hell no it isn't yep....wrong!
Even if you assert that it is wrong, you also think homosexuality is wrong so you are like a caveman who has just emerged from the darkness and is yelling “what the hell is going on out there?”
Homosexuality is wrong, that is why they hide in closets. Go to the Middle east talking gay/trans watch what happens.
Dude, where are gay head coachs? Yes a man vs woman in spors is wrong, common sense.
Even if you assert that it is wrong, you also think homosexuality is wrong so you are like a caveman who has just emerged from the darkness and is yelling “what the hell is going on out there?”
Homosexuality is wrong, that is why they hide in closets. Go to the Middle east talking gay/trans watch what happens.
Dude, where are gay head coachs? Yes a man vs woman in spors is wrong, common sense.
You have the problem not me.
You see the mentality I am dealing with? You are a moron. Maybe just stick to talking about sprinters where your Neanderthal views are slightly less offensive.
Homosexuality is wrong, that is why they hide in closets. Go to the Middle east talking gay/trans watch what happens.
Dude, where are gay head coachs? Yes a man vs woman in spors is wrong, common sense.
You have the problem not me.
You see the mentality I am dealing with? You are a moron. Maybe just stick to talking about sprinters where your Neanderthal views are slightly less offensive.
A moron can't figure out what is wrong with men competing against women in sports. Dude, think about your mom talking on your dad in a fight, you vs a sister, Are you telling me you honestly can't figure this out?
Dude, right now this season some HS boys ran a sub 40.00 4x1 relay, you know what the womens world record is in that event?
Even if you assert that it is wrong, you also think homosexuality is wrong so you are like a caveman who has just emerged from the darkness and is yelling “what the hell is going on out there?”
Homosexuality is wrong, that is why they hide in closets. Go to the Middle east talking gay/trans watch what happens.
Dude, where are gay head coachs? Yes a man vs woman in spors is wrong, common sense.
You have the problem not me.
Your prejudiced views on homosexuality have no relevance to this debate, which is chiefly about the advantages biological males have over women in sports.
It feels as if we've moved on from Rapinoe's comments, in large part, to discuss the issue behind them. And yet, I think if you actually read through the thread, you'll find plenty of people talking about the full context of what she said, the full quote (as opposed to the snippet used in the title), and their reactions to and opinions on her quote based on that fuller context. There's even a post a few above this that expresses an opinion that sometimes fairness trumps inclusion, other times maybe inclusion trumps fairness -- and unless you have more context to Rapinoe's full quote that I don't see, that appears to be her gist: inclusion of trans kids is more important than fairness of the sports they invade. That's an opinion I disagree with, but you're blind or being intentionally obtuse if you don't think people have been discussing that.
EXCEPT this “invasion” is being exaggerated to trigger hysteria in the imbeciles who generally comprise the mob of the aggrieved who are now playing the victim card which they so condemn in others.
But now you're merely circling back to the beginning and trying to argue something that we've since moved past. My very first post on this thread was to argue that dismissing the issue based on the extent of the "invasion" (i.e., how many trans women were playing for women's teams/leagues/competitions) is a bad faith dodge used by pro-trans-in-women's-sports types. It's either fair or it isn't. If it's unfair, one is too many. If it isn't fair, it doesn't matter how many are doing it, they should be stopped. As I said way back there on page one, tell us why trans women in women's sports IS fair -- don't try to dodge the question by saying it doesn't matter because of numbers (or low level of the league being invaded). I should have added, don't try to dodge the question by complaining about downvotes and how stupid everyone else is compared to your incredible genius.
Homosexuality is wrong, that is why they hide in closets. Go to the Middle east talking gay/trans watch what happens.
Dude, where are gay head coachs? Yes a man vs woman in spors is wrong, common sense.
You have the problem not me.
Your prejudiced views on homosexuality have no relevance to this debate, which is chiefly about the advantages biological males have over women in sports.
I didn't bring it so you are talking to the wrong guy.
So the volleyball team is simultaneously 1) unimportant enough that my daughter shouldn't care if she loses her roster sport or her starting role to a biological male, and 2) important enough that the trans individual may kill themselves over not having a roster spot?
Belittling the experience of trans youths doesn’t change the reality of it. They might kill themselves for the dozens of other areas of their life where they are mocked or ridiculed by people like you. Maybe for some, the sports issue is the straw that breaks the camel’s back, but they are getting it from all sides.
Also, in the case of the transathlete, those in power are effectively saying, “I know you say you are female, but we disagree with your self identity, so you can’t play.”
in the case of your daughter, they are effectively saying, “I know you thought you were the 5th best volleyball player, but you’re now the 6th.”
Yes, I know. But females who say they "identify as" boys and men are not horning in and dominating in male sports and spaces in anywhere near the same numbers - or in the same ways - that males who say they "identify as" girls and women are horning in and dominating in female sports and spaces. In fact, AFAIK no female who "identifies as" the opposite sex has ever won a single event, award or title in boys' or men's sports.
The vast majority of young females who've adopted opposite-sex gender identities today don't do sports at all because they are not physically fit or mentally in good enough shape for sports. The minority that do participate in sports are usually opting to continue competing in girls' and women's sports. Because they have learned that even after taking high-dose exogenous T for years, females aren't competitive against males in sports.
This is illustrated by the case of wrestler Mack Beggs, a trans-identified female who participated in HS girls' wrestling in Texas jacked up on T and won several state titles as a result. When Beggs went to college at Life University, Beggs joined the men's wrestling team. In theory at least. Although Beggs appeared on the men's wrestling roster, the fact is that aside from one exhibition match, Beggs never actually competed in any men's wrestling events. Beggs gave up college wrestling after junior year, supposedly to focus on other interests.
Iszac Henig of Yale, the other trans swimmer at this year's NCAA championships who didn't get nearly the same amount of attention as Lia Thomas, is typical of what many young "trans men" in sports today are doing. Henig decided to postpone "medical transition" until Henig's swimming career was over because taking exogenous testosterone would make Henig ineligible for women's competition.
BTW, no no one had or has a problem with athletes like Henig competing in girls' or women's sports so long as they eschew taking exogenous T. Because athletes like Henig are female and thus belong in women's and girls' sports.
AFAICT, female student athletes like Henig who now say they "identify as" boys/men are generally continuing to use female locker rooms, changing facilities and showers - and to bunk alongside others of their own sex in sleeping quarters when their teams travel too.
What about more general issues of access? Do you support trans males being excluded from male spaces such as male locker rooms, all male organizations should they want access?Take the hypothetical of an all male a cappella group in college. Should the group be allowed to deny admission to a trans male on the basis of biological sex? Maybe the group would select this individual because they can sing at a higher register than biological men because of a biological “advantage” of a higher pitch usually present in biological females, and thereby denying access to an otherwise worthy biological male. Should this sort of thing be barred by college rule from trying out? It would have to work both ways…..
That's not for me to decide, as I am not male.
But generally speaking, I believe that males should be allowed have bodily privacy from the opposite sex when using communal facilities outside the home for changing, showering, peeing and defecating. As a parent and a friend and relative of boys and men, I'm aware that males can be self-conscious about their bodies too.
Especially when going through puberty of adolescence, a time when many boys feel awkward about their bodies and it takes very little for them to get boners, many boys would be very discomfited to have to pee at urinals, get undressed and shower in the presence of their female school mates. Some boys would be positively mortified to have to use the urinals and get undressed with female classmates they've grown up with and known for years who've now decided to "identify as" the opposite sex.
I think men and boys have a right to male-only self-help groups like AA and NA, and to male-only health services and support groups for male-specific problems and concerns just as girls and women should have a right to female-only spaces, services and support where there's legitimate reasons for keeping things single sex. IMO, men should be allowed to get together to discuss male problems like erectile dysfunction, enlarged prostates, male-pattern balding, male infertility, male mental health, etc.
During the AIDS crisis of the 1980s and 90s, I volunteered at NYC's Gay Men's Health Crisis and had no problem with the fact that it only provided services (at that time) for men who had sex with other men.
Trans activists today say that it's bigoted to base sexual attraction on sex rather than on gender identity and gender presentation, and therefore homosexuality and heterosexuality are both transphobic. But I think gender ideologues are wrong to tell gay men that they must date and have sex with females who now claim to "identify as" boys/men, and to tell straight men they're bigots if they don't want to date and bed "trans women" like Lia Thomas and CeCe Telfer. Just I think it's wrong of trans activists to lambaste lesbians as "exclusionary" "vagina fetishists" and "sexual racists" for not wanting to bed males who say they "identify as" women - and for having no interest in doing dxck even when it's been rebranded "lady dxck."
I don't think it was justified to bar all females from voting, schools, professions, jobs and sports based on our sex the way it was done in the past. But in today's workplaces where both sexes work, in schools attended by both sexes, and in facilities used by both sexes, I have no issue with males having their own restrooms, changing rooms, locker rooms, showers, saunas, etc. I don't object to boys and men having their own sports, or being able to go to male-only Turkish baths. I don't take umbrage at the fact that there are apparel stores, tailors and shoemakers that specialize in clothing and attire designed for men - and where I won't find much of anything that fits or suits me personally when I shop there.
I also have no beef with men having male choral groups or male fraternities on college/uni campuses, etc. After Yale started admitting females as undergrads in 1968, I had no problem with the fact that Whiffenpoofs remained all male for the next 50+ years. The aim of the push for "co-education" that occurred in the 1960s and 70s was to allow women access to all the top-notch classrooms, labs, libraries, programs, sports facilities, dining halls, etc that we had once been barred from due to our sex. But women who were involved in sex-integrating previously all-male schools like Yale weren't insistent on making every single space and sport co-ed. Women who integrated the Ivies started our own sports, lobbied for our own spaces, and set up our own social groups.
BTW, I have a son who belonged to a college frat which had/has an annual weekend and other events for the frat brothers and their fathers - but no equivalent weekend or events for frat brothers and their mums. I had and have no issue with that.
EXCEPT this “invasion” is being exaggerated to trigger hysteria in the imbeciles who generally comprise the mob of the aggrieved who are now playing the victim card which they so condemn in others.
But now you're merely circling back to the beginning and trying to argue something that we've since moved past. My very first post on this thread was to argue that dismissing the issue based on the extent of the "invasion" (i.e., how many trans women were playing for women's teams/leagues/competitions) is a bad faith dodge used by pro-trans-in-women's-sports types. It's either fair or it isn't. If it's unfair, one is too many. If it isn't fair, it doesn't matter how many are doing it, they should be stopped. As I said way back there on page one, tell us why trans women in women's sports IS fair -- don't try to dodge the question by saying it doesn't matter because of numbers (or low level of the league being invaded). I should have added, don't try to dodge the question by complaining about downvotes and how stupid everyone else is compared to your incredible genius.
So what if it is unfair? So many of you hypocrites want a free market until you need a subsidy. You are fine with racial and gender discrimination UNTIL it hits close to home, you are agitated because your daughter is barely clinging to her roster spot and you lose sleep at night thinking Tommy wants to be on her team so badly that he is willing to become Tammy. You are tilting at windmills and most of you are hypocrites who appear absurd.
As I said way back there on page one, tell us why trans women in women's sports IS fair -- don't try to dodge the question by saying it doesn't matter because of numbers (or low level of the league being invaded). I should have added, don't try to dodge the question by complaining about downvotes and how stupid everyone else is compared to your incredible genius.
I don't think Rapinoe is making an argument that it is fair. Her argument is that competitive fairness is not the most important thing at youth and HS sports. Do we have random drug tests for HS athletes? If we don't, how do we know it is fair?
And I think one reason she is taking this view is that she has played at much higher levels where the competition is taken far more seriously. She looks back at her HS experience, and winning and losing at that level doesn't seem as important to her as winning and losing at the FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games. People who have never competed beyond the HS level may want to think their HS matches were just as important as World Cup matches.
As I said way back there on page one, tell us why trans women in women's sports IS fair -- don't try to dodge the question by saying it doesn't matter because of numbers (or low level of the league being invaded). I should have added, don't try to dodge the question by complaining about downvotes and how stupid everyone else is compared to your incredible genius.
I don't think Rapinoe is making an argument that it is fair. Her argument is that competitive fairness is not the most important thing at youth and HS sports. Do we have random drug tests for HS athletes? If we don't, how do we know it is fair?
And I think one reason she is taking this view is that she has played at much higher levels where the competition is taken far more seriously. She looks back at her HS experience, and winning and losing at that level doesn't seem as important to her as winning and losing at the FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games. People who have never competed beyond the HS level may want to think their HS matches were just as important as World Cup matches.
You are making sense. They will downvote the hell out of you.
So the volleyball team is simultaneously 1) unimportant enough that my daughter shouldn't care if she loses her roster sport or her starting role to a biological male, and 2) important enough that the trans individual may kill themselves over not having a roster spot?
Belittling the experience of trans youths doesn’t change the reality of it. They might kill themselves for the dozens of other areas of their life where they are mocked or ridiculed by people like you. Maybe for some, the sports issue is the straw that breaks the camel’s back, but they are getting it from all sides.
Also, in the case of the transathlete, those in power are effectively saying, “I know you say you are female, but we disagree with your self identity, so you can’t play.”
in the case of your daughter, they are effectively saying, “I know you thought you were the 5th best volleyball player, but you’re now the 6th.”
Those two scenarios are worlds apart.
If a significant part of their argument is the threat of suicide, then this only emphasizes that fact that they need mental health services more than a spot on a women's team.
I don't think Rapinoe is making an argument that it is fair. Her argument is that competitive fairness is not the most important thing at youth and HS sports. Do we have random drug tests for HS athletes? If we don't, how do we know it is fair?
And I think one reason she is taking this view is that she has played at much higher levels where the competition is taken far more seriously. She looks back at her HS experience, and winning and losing at that level doesn't seem as important to her as winning and losing at the FIFA World Cup or the Olympic Games. People who have never competed beyond the HS level may want to think their HS matches were just as important as World Cup matches.
You are making sense. They will downvote the hell out of you.
That is a privilege reserved mainly for you. The poster made much more sense than you do.
Also, in the case of the transathlete, those in power are effectively saying, “I know you say you are female, but we disagree with your self identity, so you can’t play.”(quote)
They aren't saying that. They are saying that they respect the trans-athletes self-identity but their participation in female sports is unfair because of the biological advantages they have by virtue of being male. You misrepresent this either because it doesn't suit your agenda or you simply cannot grasp it.
