Overreaction or fact? Frerichs officially passes Coburn as #1 US Steepler ever

If Emma can't run sub-9 and these achievements remain equal, I would give the nod to Courtney.

I agree with this. In 50 years, people will look at CF Olympic silver and faster times. No one will care about their head to head records or US titles.

.[/quote]

LOL you really think that in 50 years anyone except friends and family will remember CF (or Emma for that matter)?

Still Coburn for me. A gold medal in the World Champs, with everyone in the field is what pushes her over. Frerichs ran well in Tokyo but we all know the best steepler in the world wasn't there (Jeruto) and just owned her in this race. ARs are fine but they come and go and you end up an ex-record holder. If you win gold, you're always the champ. Nothing glitters like gold

Are you people high? A WC gold > Olympic silver by far. The only thing I'd trade a WC gold for is an Olympic gold or maybe a world record.

According to the Governing body of the sport, Frerichs is the the US number 1 of all time. That is literally the title of this thread. It is not subjective.

itbunkso wrote:

It was pretty much tied going into this race imo

8:57 the same year as an Olympic silver proves that she can run any type of race.

Elephant in the room for this argument is Emma’s WC gold, but that was before the emergence of BK and other fine runners today.

Frerichs with the AR, a top time of all time, and an Olympic and WC silver with no end in sight give me that status in my mind

The title is ever not now…take each whole careers I would say Coburn but Frerichs is running better now. Hopefully Coburn still has something to say…

The Snark is strong in this one... +++

westsouthrunner wrote:

Dr. Fowci wrote:

Really? So the people who win events at Pre count the same as the Olympics if the competition was the same? I doubt that many people would agree with you.

Ok obviously I was referring to the two championship meets. One is every other year and the other is every 4 years. But it's the same people competing for the same spots. No difference. I can say the Olympics gets more views maybe. But it didn't even seem like it this year if I am being honest

i would think any olympian would tell you the pressure of an olympic final is 10x more than any world championship race. yes, the competition is similar, but you could say the same about a few diamond league races that happen every year.

Coburn gets the edge because she is better looking.

There are many on LR who believe you can’t medal at world finals or set records while training clean, the general thinking being how can a clean runner possibly beat all the doping runners.

Can Frerichs possibly be clean? If personality were a factor, she passes with flying colors, but everything else points otherwise. She also trained with Shelburrito. And there’s this thread from two years ago:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9005535

Coburn fell off the throne and dropped the crown and Frerichs deftly snatched it and jumped onto the throne. Oly medal and AR at Pre in the same season, not sure that Coburn has what it takes to come back from that kind of beat-down.

Question: has Frerichs actually won any professional races? I don't have the data with me, but I know Coburn has won at least the WC gold and one DL, plus all those US titles. In distance races, times sometimes depend on who has their "on" day on the right day. Because of this, and given how close they are, I'd find it hard to give it to Frerichs if she doesn't have any top-level wins. I don't think it's the same situation as day Simpson vs. Hassan or Wilson vs. Mu, since the latter two have in several different conditions put forth performances that the former two couldn't have hit.

World athletics says the all time top list #1 American is Frerichs. Some of you should contact them if this should be a subjective rating

te5n1k wrote:

westsouthrunner wrote:

Ok obviously I was referring to the two championship meets. One is every other year and the other is every 4 years. But it's the same people competing for the same spots. No difference. I can say the Olympics gets more views maybe. But it didn't even seem like it this year if I am being honest

i would think any olympian would tell you the pressure of an olympic final is 10x more than any world championship race. yes, the competition is similar, but you could say the same about a few diamond league races that happen every year.

You can't objectively prove that take. But I can prove mine by comparing any Olympic final's season bests to the prior or latter year world finalists season bests.

For example. If we asked Elaine Thompson which is harder Olympic final or world final she is going to say Olympics because she has more of a stake in the Olympics. Or even if we asked someone who has won both like Hassan. She probably has more of a stake to say Olympics was harder because she went for a triple.

Frerichs is awesome and she's had a great year. But #1 all-time is still Emma and it's not even close. 18/20 head to head and the collection of titles and WC/OG performances, full-career, is still overwhelmingly in Emma's favor.

This is number 1 all time according to the governing body. Get it changed or accept it as fact.

michimanx wrote:

Frerichs is awesome and she's had a great year. But #1 all-time is still Emma and it's not even close. 18/20 head to head and the collection of titles and WC/OG performances, full-career, is still overwhelmingly in Emma's favor.

That said, I don't think Frerichs has to win 9 U.S. titles or beat Coburn 18 times to be greatest ever. But she does need at least 2-3 more really good years, with 2-3 more high OG/WC finishes, 2-3 U.S. titles and a few more wins over Coburn. If Frerichs dominates her and U.S. competitition between now and the '24 OG and shines on the world stage --- THEN it's a worthy debate.

michimanx wrote:

michimanx wrote:

Frerichs is awesome and she's had a great year. But #1 all-time is still Emma and it's not even close. 18/20 head to head and the collection of titles and WC/OG performances, full-career, is still overwhelmingly in Emma's favor.

That said, I don't think Frerichs has to win 9 U.S. titles or beat Coburn 18 times to be greatest ever. But she does need at least 2-3 more really good years, with 2-3 more high OG/WC finishes, 2-3 U.S. titles and a few more wins over Coburn. If Frerichs dominates her and U.S. competitition between now and the '24 OG and shines on the world stage --- THEN it's a worthy debate.

^This person gets it.

Stop bringing the head to head stats, while it's obvious Coburn ducked Frerichs at least one. So, it's at least 18-3 since her withdrawal saturday is like a lost to me. Who in the world think Frerichs would have lost that one?

Two NR (AR, by the way) plus a WC silver and OG silver trounces Emma's career so far! US titles are worthless in this debate.

I'd rather be the fastest ever in my event (two fastest times) in my country and in the PANAM area than a 9 times national champion.