Shelby Houlihan: "I want to be very clear. I’ve never taken any performance-enhancing substances"

icrlp05 wrote:

1. Your first original question is right - she should say exactly what she ordered and ate. Her repeated mealy mouthed wording (i ate at a place where there was some pork prepared) makes me suspicious. It was so frustrating no one at the press conference asked 'specifically - what did you eat that day?'

2. you should pay John Gault to eat a few steroid pork burritos and see how he tests the next morning

3. Schumacher saying he'd 'never heard of nandrolone' is very suspicious

Schumacher, Flanagan, Nessa Fraser and Shelby herself all claim to have never heard of nandrolone. That’s laughable. It’s obviously the line they’ve all been told to say.

I apologize for not reading this thread before posting. Shelby and everyone who has spoke for her seem authentic in there denials and support for her. Cheating just doesn't seem like it would be part of the success formula for a U.S. athlete who appeared to have the talent to one day run fast times and be successful without doping. However, I have been down this road before! Gatlin was one such athlete based on everything I knew said he was highly unlikely to cheat. I felt cheating wasn't in his DNA, pretty much the same way I feel -or felt about Shelby. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, USADA does take it's job seriously and is objective in its approach without sentiments towards an athlete or nationality, but they don't just do WADA's bidding. Before a U.S. athlete is convicted and announced by WADA, USADA ensures the science, procedures and protocols has been followed. USADA does not protect U.S. athletes per se, but they do make sure things are done right. As much as Shelby and her supporters will claim the process is flawed and how they have been wronged, there is a tremendous amount of due diligence before a determination is made. The reason why months go by between the date of a positive and the announcement is checking, rechecking and giving the athlete some benefit of doubt. With all of that said, the process not perfect especially when it comes Nandrolone which absolutely does exist in meat and came be passed on to an athlete who eats that meat. However, an unequivocal 4-year ban which will pretty much end an elite level athlete's career is not done lightly.

In 2017 Shelby was a national caliber athlete running around 2:02 (800), 4:05 (1500) and had not broken 15 in the 5k and in a span of 2 years she is breaking U.S. records and during a period where there was limited testing going on (2020), she run's a 14:23 5K. Shelby's 5k time was unthinkable for a U.S. athlete just a year earlier and then in an interview she, suggests going after the world record. Their is no doubt about Shelby's is talent, works hard and is well coached, but in this day-and-age, improvements like that deserves a raised eyebrow. Also, compared to Ajee Wilson and a few other athletes that have had their Nandrolone problems, Shelby's levels are quite high, high enough that USADA/WADA is not going for the inadvertent excuse and believes Shelby is a cheater.

In my heart of hearts, I want to believe Shelby would never cheat, but based on a conversation I just had with someone who understands this stuff way more than me...I am open to the possibility Shelby Houlihan is in fact, a drug cheat.

watch the 2018 usa women's 1500m championship. she trots through the finish, while the fastest women in the us are hands to the knees. This, after she blows everyone's doors off in the last 50m.

compare pics from 2017 to 2018 (and present).

i'm not saying the physique change is damning evidence (unlike a POSITIVE drug test), but all 5 of the points added together and its completely damning.

Ghost1 wrote:

Quote: “ The fact is simple. Shelby cheated. And tried to hide it by eating a burrito and showing evidence she ate a burrito. After all, who saves receipts from eating burritos? Nobody. Unless your lawyer told you to save it for your future doping case because he’s supplying you with PED’s. ”

I save most of my receipts for one month until the bank clears them because I use my card so it is possible. If she paid using a credit card then it’s perfectly possible that she saved her receipt until she got proof from her bank that she wasn’t overcharged. A lot of runners are nerds and so they do those kinds of things.

You save receipts for up to a month? It takes your bank that long to clear them? Hey Shelby

Stone flat blast wrote:

The Dirty Duck wrote:

https://www.oregonlive.com/resizer/s8Vbm5lRAv0C1I8MXhTbJniH5Lk=/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/3OOZAK7VEREKTMBVUELQQAFLP4.JPGhttps://c8.alamy.com/comp/DGN1C9/jarmila-kratochvilova-cze-competing-in-the-1983-world-athletics-championships-DGN1C9.jpg

This is pretty compelling, actually. Houlihan certainly looks gooned up.

this is meaningless. show photos of her transformation, not comparing her to a completely different person.

I'm not saying I think she's innocent. I just haven't seen anything damning besides the positive test.

Excerpts from a 2000 article that demonstrates elevated Nandrolone from boar meat.

From the abstract: '19-NA and 19-NE concentrations in urine reached 3.1 to 7.5 mg/L nearby [sic] 10 hours after boar tissue consumption.

Levels returned to endogenous values 24 hours after.'

From the abstract: 'We have thus proved that eating tissues of non-castrated male pork (in which 17bnandrolone is present) might induce some false accusations of the abuse of nandrolone in antidoping.''

From the experimental section: 'The total amount consumed per person was 310 g of the prepared meat, equivalent to 375 g raw material (ca 90 g of kidney, liver, heart and meat)'

From the quantification section: 'In the three individuals, almost the same urinary excretion profiles were observed. Indeed, 24 hours after boar intake the residue levels returned to their original concentrations, i.e. their endogenous values.'

My conclusions:

1. Houlihan happened to consume pork 10 hours before the test, the exact time frame quoted in the abstract that showed peak Nandrolone concentrations in the study. This is likely no coincidence.

2. In the experiment, the three particpants each consumed 310g (more than 3/4 of a pound raw) of non-castrated male pork. This is not the pork you get at most restaurants, nowhere near a typical serving size in a burrito, and not the result of trace contamination in the food supply. The lawyer suggested 2% of the pork supply comes from non-castrated boar meat and therefore could have contaminated Houlihan's burrito, which does not seem plausible once you realize how much contaminated boar meat needs to be consumed to trigger a 5.0 ug/L result.

3. The levels in the three participants returned to normal after 24 hours, down to about 0.1 ug/L or less, while they peaked at 3.1-7.5 ug/L. Schumacher made reference to 'exceedingly small amounts' of Nandrolone, which is misleading. It's 2.5x the legal limit, and orders of magnitude higher than concentrations measured in this study both before contaminated meat consumption, and 24 hrs after contaminated meat consumption.

We don't know whether or not Houlihan is guilty. But Houlihan and her support team have definitively used misleading statements to gain public support.

sanchobaile wrote:

Stone flat blast wrote:

This is pretty compelling, actually. Houlihan certainly looks gooned up.

this is meaningless. show photos of her transformation, not comparing her to a completely different person.

I'm not saying I think she's innocent. I just haven't seen anything damning besides the positive test.

It's not meaningless. Look at her physique. The reaction of many to that top image will probably be similar to seeing Kratochvilova in her day - something is very wrong here.

range wrote:

If she ate pork you'll let her off?

Mo Farah and S. Hassan dont eat pork.

Exactly. This tainted meat excuse has been used in the past in other countries and other sports (swimming, MLB etc) Bans were never overruled in those cases because this is all an obviously ridiculous excuse. They were eating little pieces of pork meat, not boar or organs.

But she obviously had to come up with something to try to clear her name. Polygraphs are not accurate and easy to pass. What does this say for the rest of BTC and other US runners. Must be crapping in their pants hoping they won't be caught too. I suspect anyone who drops their times drastically within months and keep dropping them in huge chunks of time - and there are a few rising "stars" that came from nowhere going to Trials and actually contending for top 3 that fit this bill.

TrackCoach wrote:

In 2017 Shelby was a national caliber athlete running around 2:02 (800), 4:05 (1500) and had not broken 15 in the 5k and in a span of 2 years she is breaking U.S. records and during a period where there was limited testing going on (2020), she run's a 14:23 5K.

The improvement occured basically between 2017 and 2018, so not with a HS/college but a 25 yo professional athlete.

2016-17: national class, makes WC 5000m final but gets second to last, cannot keep up sub 4 pace for 700m and is soundly beaten by e.g. McColgan (1500m ISTAF Berlin 2017)

2018 indoor: best in world's indoors after Dibaba, Hassan, Muir, i.e. has already overtaken the likes of McColgan

2018 summer: beats the likes of Muir in irrestistible sprint finishes in sub 4 races, 6 sec. 1500m PB (9 sec. vs. 2017 best), 25+ sec. 5000m PB (AR)

She went from getting 8th at a meet one rank below Diamond league (Berlin) and 13th WC to winning several DL meets and being a medal contender at the world stage within less than one year. If someone does this at 19-22 it is amazing but a typical breakout after cranking up mileage, including altitude etc. But with a 25 yo it's a bit of a red flag.

Yes.

Lastly, I've heard one of the witnesses in the case against Houlihan was someone who should never be allowed to testify in court again. A totally discredited witness in the Lawson case. I want to look into this. Do I think it's possible someone could have been embarrassed there and wanted to take it out on an another American? ABSOLUTELY.

Rojo, could you please elaborate more about the witness you mention?

If you believe Shelby then what is going on with WADA/CAS to cause them to not.

A bit too coincidental to me.

Okay, Shelbo, then prove it.

where is everyone getting the "2.5x legal limit?" I keep seeing this posted, yet I believe the female level is 5ng/ml which is exactly what her level was - So 1x the limit, right?

also if youre innocent, why cover it up with injury rumors?

Also, why would you only invite favorable press? I mean bring in some heavy anti-nike, anti-doper journalists. Gordon Mack hasn't asked a critical question of anyone in his life.

Sampson wrote:

2. In the experiment, the three particpants each consumed 310g (more than 3/4 of a pound raw) of non-castrated male pork. This is not the pork you get at most restaurants, nowhere near a typical serving size in a burrito, and not the result of trace contamination in the food supply. The lawyer suggested 2% of the pork supply comes from non-castrated boar meat and therefore could have contaminated Houlihan's burrito, which does not seem plausible once you realize how much contaminated boar meat needs to be consumed to trigger a 5.0 ug/L result.

If it was organ meat you need to eat much less, presumably:

Much higher concentrations in liver and other organs vs meat.

Also she is small, likely needs a smaller dose.

AIU conceded this was not injected. Suddenly I am more supportive of Shelby. Oral nandrolone? Why?

Stone flat blast wrote:

sanchobaile wrote:

this is meaningless. show photos of her transformation, not comparing her to a completely different person.

I'm not saying I think she's innocent. I just haven't seen anything damning besides the positive test.

It's not meaningless. Look at her physique. The reaction of many to that top image will probably be similar to seeing Kratochvilova in her day - something is very wrong here.

Shelby has always been muscular, just leaner now, which is typical of pro athletes as they get older.