POLL: Do you believe Shelby Houlihan is guilty or not?

Innocent

.kjh wrote:

Ray Cyst wrote:

As yourself this question;

If it was Sifan Hassan that tested positive, would you still say it was a tough call?

If not...

Why not...

Quit trying to tarnish Hassan. Do you hate all black people?

Wow, your reading comprehension is really bad.

So many of you have no idea what you are talking about. she is not guilty. listen to paul greene speak in the BTC press conference . the substance is not even performance enhancing for a distance runner, and would need to be injected over time in order to build strength. She had nothing close to the levels of what would be suspected if taken orally or injected. It's sad how quick you are to assume just because she is one of the best athletes America has had. You should feel ashamed, and consider where a life of hard work and passion has taken her.

Letsrun21 wrote:

So many of you have no idea what you are talking about. she is not guilty. listen to paul greene speak in the BTC press conference . the substance is not even performance enhancing for a distance runner, and would need to be injected over time in order to build strength. She had nothing close to the levels of what would be suspected if taken orally or injected. It's sad how quick you are to assume just because she is one of the best athletes America has had. You should feel ashamed, and consider where a life of hard work and passion has taken her.

So a BTC employee told you the substance is not performance enhancing? That is 100% false according to actual scientists whose job it is to catch dopers. You've gotten one side of the story from a crying white girl and her coach that also was taking questionable thyroid medication.

They have known about this for 6 months and been unable to turn it. The penalty was maximum. They don't give maximum penalties without a reason. Open your eyes.

If I have to decide right now: Guilty. I wish I was wrong. I look forward to reading all the documentation that will be released.

Letsrun21 wrote:

So many of you have no idea what you are talking about. she is not guilty. listen to paul greene speak in the BTC press conference . the substance is not even performance enhancing for a distance runner, and would need to be injected over time in order to build strength. She had nothing close to the levels of what would be suspected if taken orally or injected. It's sad how quick you are to assume just because she is one of the best athletes America has had. You should feel ashamed, and consider where a life of hard work and passion has taken her.

Just curious: if someone jumped off a bridge would you follow?

Ray Cyst wrote:

There is no question that she was doping, she got massively swole and it was obvious. I told people that she had to be juicing and they laughed, saying that steroids would hurt her and not help her. She took the 2019 Worlds loss very poorly thinking that she was robbed by dopers. She was convinced that the 3 women in front of her were cheating so she finally threw in the towel and adopted the If you can't beat them, join them mentality. It backfired on her and her crocodile tears are not going to save her. I actually agree with her about 2 of the 3 that beat her at worlds, but the winner was and is absolutely clean whether people believe it or not.

This seems like a sadly familiar tale. Once it became obvious that mediocre players like Sosa and Maguire were doping and becoming American heroes, it drove Bonds crazy. Neither had a tenth of his talent. That’s what drove Bonds to use. Well, the rest is history. This is another personal tragedy, probably one with a similar motivation.

Ray Cyst wrote:

There is no question that she was doping, she got massively swole and it was obvious. I told people that she had to be juicing and they laughed, saying that steroids would hurt her and not help her. She took the 2019 Worlds loss very poorly thinking that she was robbed by dopers. She was convinced that the 3 women in front of her were cheating so she finally threw in the towel and adopted the If you can't beat them, join them mentality. It backfired on her and her crocodile tears are not going to save her. I actually agree with her about 2 of the 3 that beat her at worlds, but the winner was and is absolutely clean whether people believe it or not.

They don't. For good reason. So clean still beats doping? There is no end to fan-delusion here.

Not guilty. I think a bunch of LRC are jealous wannabe fast athletes and are so spiteful that they're all hobby- joggers, at best, that they instantly want to tear down any athlete.

When do you ever have anything good to say about athletes. Every time a world class runner has a stellar performance you all assume they're juiced.

The testing system is flawed and political. Shelby Houlihan is not their poster child, so they will allow her to go down.

I want to believe she is but regardless even if this gets overturned, her reputation is tarnished. Ppl are always gonna think of her as a cheater or forever question it if she runs fast

The protruding oblique muscles gice it away every time. That and she had man like qualities.

I dont believe her at all. I believe that Jerry, Shalane, etc. all legitimately believe her but that's because she has manipulated them into thinking otherwise.

So tantalizingly close to the truth. Admits that 2 and 3 were doping but actually believes that the winner was clean, which is ridiculous. But no matter how many dopers a favorite beats, the favorite must somehow be clean.

The only thing I would believe is that her steroids were tainted. Bad supplier seems common with supplements, and even more so with illegal supplements- and she ended up taking nandrolone when she usually dosed with a steroid with a shorter half life. So perhaps they were all genuinely shocked she got popped for nandrolone since she was never meant to be on it and why they knew she wouldn’t have it in a hair sample. But no way do I believe she tested for it from eating a taco, even if that taco was from an authentic Mexican food truck, which is where most body builders go for their nandrolone.

Poor girl. I feel pity for her.

Whatever was done this dosent deserve.

Passant wrote:

Poor girl. I feel pity for her.

Whatever was done this dosent deserve.

I mean I feel sad for her.

(because I'm not good in English)

Oh god yes ! she looks like the russian women from a few years ago,and she was probably on a similar drug regimen.Her steroid/drug use was glaringly obvious.

itred wrote:

Guilty.

She has no actual evidence to explain the fact that she had 9 times the legal amount. Food trucks are required to have food handler licenses and follow the same rules as restaurants. They gave her the maximun suspension which means they have no reason to believe her claims. She has had months to sort this out and the ban is maximum. BTC is hiding things.

Does seem pretty darn unlikely that she could have levels anywhere near that high from anything but intentionally using. If it was as easy as eating a burrito, I think it would be standard bro science by now. The photo posted earlier in this thread makes her look very androgynous even by female athlete standards...

astro wrote:

So tantalizingly close to the truth. Admits that 2 and 3 were doping but actually believes that the winner was clean, which is ridiculous. But no matter how many dopers a favorite beats, the favorite must somehow be clean.

What's ridiculous is that you believe the white girl is always clean. If someone is faster than Shalane or Kara or Shelby, especially if they are Kenyan or Ethiopian, they must be doping. Shalane says the WADA tests are so sensitive that they detect trace amounts of banned substances, yet, the only person it detected it in is her athlete. Odd how that works isn't it?

Don't be mad bro.

At first I read the accounts and the burrito excuse and was like: oh that is terrible, poor girl.

But honestly, naturally occuring levels of this steroid are 0.5-1ng/ml. She tested at 5mg/ml. This is not trace amount. This is 5 times the normal level. There is NO WAY this can get in your system by accidental contamination.

I am on the fence but leaning towards guilty. Her rise to running stardom would coincide very well with microdosing steroids to get stronger.

However I think the Doping agencys should make real life tests of these type of naturally occuring levels after eating certain meats to sample the statistical fluctuations that can occur in it.

As a statistician this is the issue here: If we say 0.5-1ng/ml is the normal range then this is an average. What you need to know is where 99.5% of all naturally occuring datapoints fall. To sample this range properly you need to have a good statistical sample as a baseline. I think there can be really rigorous statistics and tests to avoid wrong convictions.