Miracle 2:30 Marathon Training Plan

The 7aji wrote:

Oh no, that wasn't what i was considering. If i were to update i wouldn't be posting my log because that'll more or less stay the same throughout the months, i'm not building mileage.

What i'm considering doing is talking about how i feel with the training, if i set any accidental PRs in training, changed training location, easy pace decreasing (or increasing during the summer). More like blog updates.

You're gonna do the same exact workouts every week?? Surely that can't be a good recipe for success.

Marathon training should be progressive. I'm not referring to mileage, but your quality days.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

The 7aji wrote:

No, no, and no. I'm not gonna fall the coach js bullshit

Well......you think it`s BS I have coached a 2:07, 2:08, 2:09 and 2:10 (2) marathons? That I just

in 2 months( ! ) coaching got an age 43 guy to better his master PB from 16:30 to 15:37 at 5000m? I can keep on with the list of great coaching for quite long .......

Well......without me you will not even come close to 2:30-2:34 on 60-65 mpw if you now only can run a half in 1:21 . As I told even me will have problems to get you to run 2:30 -2:34 in CIM in December, but you would have get the best low mileage coaching and fix the goal next year instead. Anyway good luck! :)

So you're the only coach that can achieve that goal? Keep in mind that JS coached a guy at the same race, but he was 15 minutes off his goal. CIM is a rolling course, which requires you to get used to those type of conditions in training. It's very important to not only train for the distance, but the conditions you'll face on race day. Eccentric loading is a hard thing on the body but like with training, your body can get used to it. JS said his system is so great that you don't need any hills.

Many of his runners he has coached have claimed he never coached them.

And JS isn't in this for you. He wants to try and promote himself, which is why you have to post everything publicly.

And since Phil had a massive marathon failure at CIM, he decided being coached by JS for free was a bad deal, so he fired him. That's probably why JS is trying to lock you in for over a year.

The only things that will change in my plan is the length of the tempo run, the speed of the pyramid intervals and a cycling of the long run distance weekly. There will be progression. Once i succeed, i'll drop a file or something with my complete log in December. 2 files probably. One for the 10 week half marathon training plan that will end in August, then the marathon plan. Keeps it nice and tidy. I'm not OCD but i also hate clutter.

One of the things i disliked about the canova threads is that he chopped up his advice over several pages and I had to sift and scroll through all the other spam. I don't wanna do that.

I wish you luck, Abdul.

Got it. Alrighty I guess we'll just wait on those monthly updates then!

The 7aji wrote:

Can anyone help me formulate a plan to make this happen?

Why not just train and keep improving? What is it with a random goal based off an HM of 1:21?

1:21 at best gives you 2:50 with the requisite training, so you are not a potential 'elite'.

From personal experience, I ran 1:20 off very little (less than 60km/wk), progressed fast to 2:46 of about 60km/wk (3:10, 2:57, 2:46), in same year before the age of 21

I ran sub 2:30 about 5 yrs later, off about 100-110km/wk

You need to do the work.

You need be able to easily run sub 16 , 5km, just on a whim. You need to PB down in low 15's.

You need to race shorter distances often, you need a racing 'brain', so that when you stand at the start line you know exactly how its going to pan out.

Most of it is not rocket science.

But rather than seek out some magic formula, just train more, race more and improve

That is the ideal logical strategy but for personal reasons i need to hit this goal by december. After which i'm open to a slow burn.

Regarding shorter races, i'm not into racing often. I'd rather TT than race. For me, doing it too often and getting disappointed with the results gives me the excuse to chicken out of a goal when i don't feel great at a peak race. Once i toe the start line there's no going back that's how i like to approach my races. But ya i definitely get you. My goal is very unorthodox and possibly insane.

The 7aji wrote:

Regarding shorter races, i'm not into racing often. I'd rather TT than race. For me, doing it too often and getting disappointed with the results gives me the excuse to chicken out of a goal when i don't feel great at a peak race. Once i toe the start line there's no going back that's how i like to approach my races. .

TT's are fine as a benchmark, but what you are saying above is exactly the reason you need to race. You will develop a 'racing brain', i.e. know how to spend all your biccies over the whole distance in the most effective manner

I've done fine with my current racing frequency. I placed third in my first half marathon for god sake. And that was my second race ever. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I am honestly starting to think this is a troll post. If not, WTF dude!

You are asking for some magic training plan to get someone with what appears to be normal amounts of talent to a 2:30 marathon off of minimal mileage in an unreasonable time frame.

Multiple people here have told you that this is a great long term potentially attainable goal but it will require work, dedication and patience to get there. It just won’t happen off a small bump in mileage in 6 months. You don’t seem to be looking for help, rather you seem to be looking for some sort of ego-boost. This is the reason no actual valid coach is going to come out of the woodwork with “the plan”.

You keep referencing this 1:21 2nd half marathon as though this is some indicator. That time off of a year of training at your mileage levels says to me you may be able to hit 2:30 after 5-10 years of consistent training working your way up to big volume and staying injury free.

Throughout the course of this thread, it became clear I wasn't going to get a plan from here. Yes, initially that's what i wanted but things took a turn. Looks like i'm gonna have to do it on my own. I have stayed in shape after my last race, it's not like I stopped running. I've never taken more than 6 days off since i started running last year and haven't gone more than 2 weeks without at least some high intensity work in the form of intervals or tempos etc.

I am confident that i can achieve this goal in December and i appreciated the support that i got from this thread.

Well, a lot of people gave you thoughts about what kind of workouts you should do and what your strategy should be, especially in the first 3 pages. As for a specific plan, that's almost impossible to formulate because even the best plans get minor tweaks on a week to week/month to month basis, depending on what the runner is doing.

I'd reconsider updating weekly or biweekly cause that's one way to illustrate to everyone how seriously you are approaching this endeavor!

It seems like you are very determined and I'm interested to see what will happen but without frequent updates we'll never know!

I get what you're saying Rhodium but i don't give myself any wiggle room in my plans, i don't take detours when things seem not to go as planned. I pick a schedule and i stick to it. Writing down my log here in chopped up form over an entire year will be redundant and boring. Like i said, if i have something interesting to add i'll update more frequently

The 7aji wrote:

Throughout the course of this thread, it became clear I wasn't going to get a plan from here. Yes, initially that's what i wanted but things took a turn. Looks like i'm gonna have to do it on my own. I have stayed in shape after my last race, it's not like I stopped running. I've never taken more than 6 days off since i started running last year and haven't gone more than 2 weeks without at least some high intensity work in the form of intervals or tempos etc.

I am confident that i can achieve this goal in December and i appreciated the support that i got from this thread.

You are really too much of a troll!!! ))

"Throughout the course of this threadit became clear I wasn`t going to get a plan from here."

Some guys told you the only coach that could help you come Close to your goal on low mileage was the expert of low mileage training. And you turned it down by Calling my coaching BS. As I said,,,,,you are really too much !!

It’s crazy that as terrible and ignorant a coach as JS is, 7aji seems just dumb enough for it to be a good fit.

1:21 is not fast, like at all, and the fact that you haven’t taken any time off is not impressive.

The tricky thing is that (spoiler alert) people are different. There’s no set formula to breaking 2:30 as some are able to do it on 40mpw and others will never do it on 150mpw. I’d recommend a scaled down version of Daniels (which has solid workouts and a set program) where you would be ignoring the recommended paces for current fitness and instead trying to go at paces increasingly close to 2:30 shape, while also ensuring that you get up to feeling comfortable doing a weekly (or most weekly) 20 miler. That will ensure you’re getting time training on your feet for the long haul while still getting in the intensity to get into race speed shape. I can flesh this out better for you tomorrow.

el hombre wrote:

The tricky thing is that (spoiler alert) people are different. There’s no set formula to breaking 2:30 as some are able to do it on 40mpw and others will never do it on 150mpw. I’d recommend a scaled down version of Daniels (which has solid workouts and a set program) where you would be ignoring the recommended paces for current fitness and instead trying to go at paces increasingly close to 2:30 shape, while also ensuring that you get up to feeling comfortable doing a weekly (or most weekly) 20 miler. That will ensure you’re getting time training on your feet for the long haul while still getting in the intensity to get into race speed shape. I can flesh this out better for you tomorrow.

I'll no doubt need to work on my speed which i have already for the last 5 weeks in addition to the other types of speed workouts that i've been doing. I'm a strength based runner and I ran my 1:21 HM, not being able to run a single 400 faster than 1:18 at the time. Daniels' paces are too fast for me.

I'm working on my half marathon and marathon plans now to start in early june. I look forward to hearing your feedback so that i can possibly incorporate some stuff in my plan(s) if possible, thanks!! :)

There are no miracles to a 2:30 Marathon.

A lot of talent and a lot more work is needed. It might or might not be possible for you but it definitely won't happen this year. Maybe in 3 or 5.

Train for your first Marathon, make it happen and go from there.

Good luck.

The 7aji wrote:

Throughout the course of this thread, it became clear I wasn't going to get a plan from here. Yes, initially that's what i wanted but things took a turn. Looks like i'm gonna have to do it on my own. I have stayed in shape after my last race, it's not like I stopped running. I've never taken more than 6 days off since i started running last year and haven't gone more than 2 weeks without at least some high intensity work in the form of intervals or tempos etc.

I am confident that i can achieve this goal in December and i appreciated the support that i got from this thread.

There are tons of plans, just not many that are magical. Just follow this 2-week mesocycle from Mahon progressing through 3 cycles in a 6 week block. It is a balance of short reps, long reps, long runs with marathon pace etc. Take the time to write out a plan for yourself based on the template. Focus on time/effort rather than a “goal pace” you’re wishing for. Keep training, have variety and recover. It isn’t hard to improve when you’re new to running. The hard part is not getting injured.