Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Do you have a link to studies with measurements of cortisol levels after different % HR efforts?

Any update on the book Sirpoc?

Maybe something extra about tapering, especially the Greek method

14 Weeks into vanilla NSM and very happy overall as I feel a lot fitter and less fatigued (previously following the standard track intervals, tempos, blah blah blah type of training). Have averaged about 55 miles a week.

Around the start of NSM, after a summer of “traditional” training I ran a 5K race in just under 18 minutes. Last saturday I did a (no taper) parkrun TT and ran 18:42. It was a weird experience, as legs felt strong, I was trying to push with full effort, but my HR stayed below threshold (right at what I hit on 1K repeats). I just did not have another gear BUT I felt like I could have substained the pace for several more miles. So different from a normal full send 5k when you are just hanging on by a thread in last half mile.

I know it’s early days but I was hoping for a little improvement so was a bit disappointed. Gonna keep going with HSM if only because I feel so damn good on this training and it’s the first time I’ve been able to sustain decent mileage without feeling a bit wrecked.

Anyone else experience this?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265963595_Exercise_and_circulating_Cortisol_levels_The_intensity_threshold_effect

So I put % of vo2 max -> hr and then extrapolated it and then you can "guess" that at 68% and below you have no cortisol rise.

Some folks have mentioned that there is an initial dropoff if you're going from speedwork to NSM in 5k performance. But not 42 seconds dropoff, I would think. It's also hard to compare two data points directly, as there are a lot of contributing factors to race performance. Was it the same course? Hillier? What were the conditions of your sub 18 vs. now?

Also, if this was your first hard effort in 14 weeks, it could very well be a "rust buster" type of scenario, where your body needs to "remember" how to push past that threshold point. Perhaps give another 5k a go?

I had a similar experience after 10ish weeks of easy volume and threshold. Absolutely bonked an 8k running 31:20 and felt like I had no gears and ran a 5k 2 weeks later running 17:46. Anecdotally, I would vote for another 5k attempt.

Thanks for the input. Race and TT conditions were fairly similar except TT was a good bit cooler weather ( not enough to make a huge difference). I am going to target a mid December 5K race as my next TT. From past results it has a decently fast field with quite a few guys in the high 17s range.

You're averaging 55 miles a week, what was it prior to stating NSM?

What was average load in the 14 weeks? How did this compare to previous blocks?

Some people posted way back with similar experiences. It was termed "threshold lock". IDK if they broke through this, and posted an update?

Sorry if this had been covered (huge thread!) but how often do you update your threshold pace? How do you go about that? Thanks, from, a Rookie in all of this

When you say you didn't have another gear, what precisely do you mean? Do you mean you physically couldn't move your legs faster, you would start to feel huge lactic acid buildup if you increased pace, your breathing couldn't handle it?

was averaging about 40 miles per week in the year or so before NSM.

By not having another gear, I mean I felt my legs would just not turn over any faster but aerobically I was relatively comfortable. I was a weird feeling, I was consciously trying to push hard but could not get under 6 min mile pace. Threshold lock…hmmm interesting

That is the way it was described earlier.

I’ve experienced this on race day. I have found that I need to do a pretty robust warm up. Like 1km at threshold prior or I feel stale. But I might even a few more reps from previous race experience. Good thing is with this training you won’t get tired from a solid effort warmup.
Hope that helps

I noticed you ran 2 low 15s on the same day, on pretty rubbish looking XC courses.

As one of the NSM 'elites', do you think you might have gone as good in race two as you were more ready to go? I usually struggle the first km of a race since training like this. Can't complain, as my results are on another level to any previous training. But it seems to be something that comes up a lot.

Doing S/T reps as race warm up was discussed on the Reddit thread. if I remember correctly, the advice was to finish them circa 15 mins before start of race.

This was kind of an eye opener. I view the NSM overwhelmingly beneficial compared to all previous training styles I’ve undertaken prior. I didn’t have a term for the staleness I’ve felt at the start of races, but ‘threshold lock’ fits nicely. For the first year, I did traditional warmups, then moved to 1-2 min S/T and honestly I still would feel rusty in the start of races no matter the distance. The longer the hard reps I do pre-race, the better the race has played out so far. So I definitely think I essentially did a warm up 5k first, because I felt way better on the second.
This is a novel issue as far as I’m concerned. Meaning I just didn’t expect it but figure I can work around it on race day without changing training leading into the race.