50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I'm throwing my modest week into the mix. I'm still sticking with the 5 mile jogs since they are helping me with overall fitness and weight loss. I've added yoga twice a week and I do weight lifting on my yoga days. I'm adding strides to the end of my runs so my legs can start moving faster. It's a slow process but I'm enjoying the journey back to competition.

Reboot, the bloodwork idea is certainly good. Just wondering if you are doing any foam rolling, getting any massages, GENTLE stretching, etc. Also, wondering how you are running, that is, are you starting off your runs slower and picking up as comfortable. If you are starting at 9:00 pace without warm-up, perhaps that can create some micro-damage too, vs. start at 10:00+ and ease into running at 9's. Just wonderin'.

Amkelly, just wondering how your Achilles is, and if you are able to get some massage, deep tissue or otherwise, Graston, or other work on it. Also, when my wife dealt with it, was encouraged to start with minutes of running rather than miles, despite her CV fitness. Also wondering if you put any heal lifts in your shoes to take a bit of stress off them. Maybe you have done them all, cannot remember, but not trying to be a "pain", just reflecting.

MikeF, are you in London now and how's the weather forecast? Sounds like GB citizens are very excited to host the WC. Cannot wait to watch.

My wife and I are back in the KC area and we have a cool front moving in! This is one weird summer. Last week, while gone, there was a 7" gully washer here. Climate change seems to mean that we didn't get 100 days this year (I see that Eugene did!). So will take advantage of it but also remember this in the years to come, that 2017 brought us summer coolness. Hope to get to the track now that we're back and rested from our AZ trip, though we are missing the beauty and low humidity coolness of Flagstaff.

Igy,

Best coach I ever had (Tom Carleo) helped me to break 1500 racing up into 3 parts. 1st 2 laps (he'd say just go to sleep). 3rd lap (he'd say focus on every stitch on the singlet of the guy just in front of you). Last 300 (get into position for one bold move). I know. Easy to write. Difficult to get the mind to cope with the patience and pain.

KP

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Reboot, the bloodwork idea is certainly good. Just wondering if you are doing any foam rolling, getting any massages, GENTLE stretching, etc. Also, wondering how you are running, that is, are you starting off your runs slower and picking up as comfortable. If you are starting at 9:00 pace without warm-up, perhaps that can create some micro-damage too, vs. start at 10:00+ and ease into running at 9's. Just wonderin'.

With multiple people recommending blood work, you are convincing me to look into that.

I do start slower. Even slower this year than last. It's one of the reasons I can't / don't run with my wife, as she's a harrier right out of the blocks. I typically start at a 10:00+ shuffle, 9:30 by the end of the first mile and 9's or lower after. Sometimes getting down to low 8's / high 7's; but honestly not too often lately.

I've never really been much into the foam rolling and massage. Perhaps I was not ever convinced of the benefit. I have been doing a few yoga stretches everyday, though admittedly can't get anywhere near the right position. I will start some rolling.

Thanks for the feedback. Will try some things and setup a doc appointment.

Cheers

Ken

KP,

Thanks good advice. I believe Daniels said first 2/3rds with your head, last third with your heart. In the Nick Willis piece a few weeks back he talked about a drive over the last 300m.

Also, I would like to hear your thoughts sometime, on fall training as base for an indoor and outdoor track season.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

old guy II,

I am taking one of your fellow Southern California masters backpacking at the end of the month. I have known Perry Forrester since the mid-1970s. My son and I do a backpacking trip at the end of summer each year. Perry joined us two years ago and is coming back for more fun.

I see you making good progress of late.

Igy

I'm a little surprised that I haven't crossed paths with him in all that time, but a quick internet search looks like he has been doing mostly trail/ultra stuff in recent years. He might recognize my last name since my late mother was a Superior Court judge in Compton for over 20 years.

While I am happy with the direction of my health and fitness, I now am about 15 months into a program I thought would take 6 months to get back to being injury-free and with a good strength base to build on. At our age healing and improvement seems to occur at a glacial pace, and patience in training has never been my strong suit.

Have a great time on your backpacking trip. I am retiring at the end of this calendar year and looking forward to having more time for outdoor activities.

old guy II,

Surprised you haven't bumped into him. Perry will be in our age group sometime over the next six months. He was second in the 60-64 USATF half marathon last year running around 1:28. Also, won a couple of track titles as a 55-59 year old. Cal Fullerton runner when they had the good teams, Santa Monica Track Club, and around 10th at the Olympic Trials Marathon in 1976.

I will let him know of your mother. My daughter is also an attorney. She has argued legal points in front of the Idaho Supreme Court. She works for an Idaho firm as a junior attorney. Her dream is to be a judge someday.

One of the areas you might target in the future is the Sawtooth National Recreation Area. Off the beaten path. My son is in charge of the backpack route and it looks like we will return to the Sawtooths. Last year we did a loop around Hells Canyon. One day we hiked about 13 miles and had to bushwhack a quarter mile section at the end of the day. Hopefully this year the route will less challenging.

Congratulations on retirement, I am three years out, but I plan to reduce my workload over time.

Lack of patience is one reason you are a good runner.

Igy

old guy II,

Here is a piece on Sawtooths.

https://www.theoutbound.com/dustykleiner/the-top-5-adventures-in-the-sawtooth-mountains

As the crow flies less than 60 miles away, probably double that from Boise. The town of Stanley gets some of the coldest temperatures in the lower 48 in winter. Snow levels can be high even in June, so better times to visit are July and August. Late August optimal when kids are back in school. Like I said off the beaten path, but a real gem that should be on anyone's list of places to see.

Igy

old guy II wrote:

imarunner, FYI, Igy has been dogged by an apparently pathologically personality disordered troll on this message board for a long time.

I wonder if you could help me by pointing to some examples of this alleged trolling. I asked Ghost to do this earlier, but he was unable to produce any evidence of such. I've called him out for his disrespectful tone towards others as I've seen nothing to justify it. Color me skeptical.

On a happier note, I enjoy reading this thread and sharing your thoughts and experiences with my father who still occasionally places in his age group at some local road races. Our discussions have helped keep our father-daughter relationship strong. Thanks to all the positive posters.

"imarunner is legit and has been around a long time," perhaps but not a registered name

imarunr is a registered name

Interesting that your daughter ended up an attorney. I somewhat discouraged my sons from considering the legal profession and they ended up closer to your profession. (You can see who they are if you look up FS Investors).

One of my few regrets is that I never got up to Idaho when one of my sisters and her husband were there. He was a prof at the U of I vet school and she went to U of I Law School and then practiced there with a small IP firm, Ormiston Korfanta Dunbar & Holland for several years. Maybe I can rectify that in my retirement years :>)

old guy II,

I was a college track coach for nineteen years. I was one of three finalists that interviewed for the University of Idaho women's track position in 1996. They were going to have combined programs in the following years. I was devastated when I did not get the job, I quit my coaching position that summer. We moved to Boise and was hired shortly thereafter by the then Dean Witter, which merged and became Morgan Stanley. At the time it was the hardest thing I ever did, but now I have an established business, and with a partner more free time.

I am familiar with FS, I will look up your sons. It is a tough business to get started in, at least with our firm. The last rookie to make it was my partner, and that was over ten years ago. Boise area is still a relatively small market.

I did not encourage my children to coach or follow in my footsteps in financial services. Both my son and daughter stayed close to home going to Boise State with graduate school elsewhere. Son is a mechanical engineer doing business as an electrical engineer. His business is Cimarron Technologies (sells Brown Dog Adapters) which is internet based. The daughter started out in anthropology, received a grad assistantship that in the end morphed into law. Her first position was in family law with Idaho Legal Aid. Last three years on the business side. She is very ethical and struggles with the billable hours drill. However, is very poised in the court room and an original legal thinker. Both kids are young, early to mid-30s, so hard to say if they stay where they are now.

If you make it up this direction I would be happy to show you around.

Igy

old guy II,

Your sons bios are very impressive. I thought I had smart kids--my wife's genes--no credit here.

What is their take on the current market? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Igy

My younger son primarily trades their public equity portfolio for them. They mainly use it like a checking account for moving in and out of their private stuff. As they so ambiguously put it in their bio's, he and his brother developed an algorithm that "uses data science on poorly structured or challenging data for predictive purposes." They run a somewhat traditional value-oriented long-short fund where he sticks pretty close to the algorithm output with a little bit of fine tuning for macro stuff they see. Right now I think they have their current positions pretty fully hedged and have pulled a lot of cash out of the market. I probably would get yelled at if I was any more specific than that :>) Other than their recent MLS franchise boondoggle, they like to be extremely low profile and stay out of the public eye.

old guy II,

Understood and interesting. Noting your sons' science backgrounds and poking around their site it all makes sense. We have a value slant and are more asset allocators. Our business is mostly individual investors with a sprinkling of 401k plans. Many of our clients have been with us for close to twenty years. I see stocks and bonds distorted by central bank policy of low interest rates and QE. Once you get a little grey hair on your head you do acquire some skepticism. I try to temper it to not become too cynical.

Igy

Hey All:

Haven't been around much for the last many months, mostly because I haven't been running. Good to see some familiar names and I hope everyone is doing better than I am.

I ran the Columbus Half last fall--aiming for about 1:38 but crashed badly at about 8 miles. Two weeks before the race I put in an 11-miler then mowed the lawn that afternoon, and aggravated a persistent knee problem. It didn't bother me as I ran the half. Over the winter I ran a little less, usually only a few miles a couple of times a week, and played hockey Friday mornings. Often after hockey the knee would be swollen. I planned to run the Ohio Health half this past spring but just couldn't get the miles in. Very early summer I landed awkwardly on a curb as I was running and aggravated the knee again. Turns out my "runner's knee" is discernible on MRI:

There is a 7 x 10 mm area of grade 4 chondromalacia involving the anterior aspect of the lateral femoral trochlear cartilage and there is patchy grade 2-3 chondromalacia of the lateral patellar facet cartilage.

Patellofemoral dysplasia with a hypoplastic trochlear groove and abnormal increased transverse distance between the central aspect of the trochlear groove and the tibial tubercle of 2.3 cm.

Moderate proximal patellar tendinopathy.

The tendinitis is what finally motivated me to go in--it's newer than the chondromalacia and despite a month off, and now returning gradually, neither seems to be improving.

I've been given a range of exercises to work on and, of course, I'm doing a lousy job doing them regularly. If they don't improve things, my doctor is recommending cortisone, followed by a synthetic lubricant in the knee. Does anyone have experience with a grade 4 chondromalacia? Come back with just exercise alone? Had the cortisone or synthetic lubricant?

I'd like to be able to run ~20 miles/week max and play hockey. Nothing more. Preferably stay fit and active for another 20+ years. I'm 54 now.

Thanks for any advice.

AndyB

Igy, with your 1500m race tomorrow, and it being a one-timer, have you or would you consider using a heart rate monitor for the first 1/2 or 2/3 of the race? I know you have much more track race experience than I do, but when not feeling race sharp, could it be a useful tool of reassurance you're on the right pace?

I used mine in my only track race in June, a mile, but again, I'm a newbie for track races, esp. something "short" as a mile.

Hoser, eh wrote:

Hey All:

It didn't bother me as I ran the half. Over the winter I ran a little less, usually only a few miles a couple of times a week, and played hockey Friday mornings. Often after hockey the knee would be swollen.

I'd like to be able to run ~20 miles/week max and play hockey. Nothing more. Preferably stay fit and active for another 20+ years. I'm 54 now.

Thanks for any advice.

AndyB

No knee issues and never played hockey. I would take a break from hockey since this is what you say is hurting your knee the most.