50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

some good workouts this week in preparation for flint (see you there SCgal--do we know each other?)

tuesday ran 5 miles in the morning with my h.s. team, then joined younger calcoast runners along with john gardiner and ran a 1600 (5:45), 1200 (4:15), 800 (2:33--71/81), 400 (67) with 400 rest; counting warmup and cooldown, it totaled 9 miles.

thursday ran 4 miles again in the morning with h.s. team, then a 3 mile tempo (fun run at a local h.s.) in the evening in 17:30.

altogether, pretty good mileage for the week, maybe 60? (i almost never count), with lots of double days--this week i'm at altitude in mammoth for our training camp so i'll log in some slow painful mileage, but lots of fun and diverse terrain. starting to feel like a runner again,

cush

Just a 27 mile week but now know what 7000 feet at Flagstaff is like with three runs and then to Tucson for the rest. Mike F, have been to 3 WC and loved them. Would have done this one but for family issues. Did get a couple of 8 mile runs here and great meals all week and now have my 34th anniversary behind us and Jane is now a 60 year old joy and sweet heart so life is good

I'm mixing in some strides along with my jogging. It's time to start thinking like a sprinter and moving my legs faster. My first yoga class was a surprise in that it was enjoyable for me. I don't know what I expected but I didn't think I would like it as much as I did. I plan on doing it twice a week. My flexibility is hideous and I need help. Have a good week.

Greetings, friends:

I was happy to finish Tuesday's long run with a couple miles at marathon pace, although that's a far cry from Pfitzinger's suggested long run "with 10 miles @ marathon race pace."

I was also happy with Friday's lactate threshold workout: 2 x 3 miles. I've been running LT workouts totally "by feel," not checking midway splits. This week, though, I checked every half-mile, aiming for 6:30 pace. Maybe a little faster than current LT pace, but the psychological boost was really needed after weeks of 6:40-pace stagnation.

I was not so happy with the pain continuing all week -- every single step (left knee, right achilles). Just have to survive the next nine weeks and run the goal marathon.

My training week:

JULY 23-30, 2017:

Off

LR: 20.0 miles @ 7:56/mi (1-10) @ 7:12/mi (11-20)

Easy:Bike 18.3 miles @ 18.7 mph

Easy: 10.0 miles @ 7:46/mi

LT: 2.5-mi warmup; 3 x 2 miles w/2min recoveries @ (6:31-6:29), (6:29-6:32), (6:30-6:20); 2.5-mile cooldown

Easy: a.m. Bike 27.4 miles @ 19.0 mph; p.m. 5.0 miles @ 8:54/mi

Easy: 5.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 50.0 MILES

2017 Racing

5K: 18:57 April 2 (6:06/mi)

Half Marathon: 1:28:41 April 30 (6:46/mi)

Marathon Goal: 3:05:00 (7:03/mi) Target race October 1st

LucKY - Hope you had a nice drive home, and your back returns to normal. I feel your pain -- having experienced several crippling back episodes since my mid-20s. Time always heals it, but I always fear "the next time."

MikeF - Sounds like an awesome trip, looking forward to hearing your first-hand accounts. My son and his wife just returned from London this week. Lots of rainy weather -- hopefully will be better for the IAAF meet.

Igy - You've strung together quite a few weeks of solid work. Gotta be gratifying to be back "on track"!

dhaaga - Looks like some serious mileage this week. And 19:25 5K is "half-marathon effort," eh! Always impressive!

amkelley - Continued solid efforts on the bike; do you have a nice area in which to ride? I joined a club a few years ago ... most of the others lived in the city/suburbs, so country rides were a treat for them. For me, though, it just wasn't worth an hours' drive to hook up, when I can go out my front door and ride for miles without sharing the road with another vehicle!

oldhamdog - I forget your background, but it seems you're healthy and consistent, with some nice mileage. Your "trail" opportunities are enviable. Close to home, or a drive, first?

Charlie - Is that a bike on the road, or stationary?

Mike L - Carry on!

old guy II - Congrats on that progression run today ... steady acceleration, and nice finish. For most of my running "career," those types of runs have been my bread and butter.

SCgal - Super results at the triathlon! Congratulation on the age group win and high overall finish. Wish I could swim. Tried to teach myself back in my 30s ... just couldn't nail the breathing stuff ... but could do a full lap without taking a breath!

Mike R - Nice job at the HM, and congrats on the 30th anniversary, too! Good luck in the upcoming tri.

Coyote - 88.2% age grade 10K ... wow! And coming off a 70-mile week. Incredible. You've gotta feel good about where you are these days. I am looking forward to your HM results!

Reno - Another man on a bike! And some nice track workouts. Looks like you're on target your Toronto goals, yes?

not half fast - A happy well-rounded week, I would say. My kayak sits mostly unused. Last year I did a kayak-bike-run triathlon, so was on the water many times by the first week of August.

socalcush - Definitely looking forward to seeing your results at Flint!

Have a great week, everyone!

-Allen

allen1959,

Thanks, your steady consistency is inspirational. I hope to move to some strength training this fall and incorporate some of your workouts.

Igy

Allen1959 wrote:

amkelley - Continued solid efforts on the bike; do you have a nice area in which to ride? I joined a club a few years ago ... most of the others lived in the city/suburbs, so country rides were a treat for them. For me, though, it just wasn't worth an hours' drive to hook up, when I can go out my front door and ride for miles without sharing the road with another vehicle!

Allen,

Very sorry to hear that your knee and Achilles problems persist. I have decided to mostly quit running on my sore Achilles for as long as I have the option to ride in the morning and come to work late. That ends in about three weeks, and then I'll have to decide whether I can start running more or have to resort to the bike trainer in the garage in the dark.

I'm fortunate to live in a small city from which I can quickly escape to rural roads. My 2-2.5 hour rides are typically about 1/3 through low-density suburbia and about 2/3 on quiet country roads that have decent quality pavement and little traffic. Rather boring though, and as my routes go out to the southeast while the wind usually picks up out of the northwest, I nearly always have a "conspiracy wind" with little tailwind going out and a stronger headwind coming home. I used to have prettier and more interesting routes available to the northwest, but two years ago the county installed rumble strips on the shoulder of two of the key roads making them unridable, so that option is gone. But I'm glad to be able to go right out my front door and ride without ever having to face severe traffic. Many people don't have that option.

Allen,

Man you are a tough guy but maybe too tough?

Riding outside never have used one of those fancy stationary bikes but might try it this winter as I have really enjoyed getting back on the bike this summer when my foot was a hurting .

Igy,

Good luck Saturday hope the early start keeps it cool.

Charlie,

Thanks. I'll give a recap Sunday. The 1500m is at 8:00 am, the other races throughout the day with 100s predicted. I'll have a blanket and shade from a tree.

Igy

Charlie wrote:

... you are a tough guy but maybe too tough?

I wouldn't advise anyone to continue running through this level of discomfort. But I am stupid and stubborn, and find it difficult to abandon goals. If things get much worse, I may succumb. I will continue with the cycling and a strength/flexibility routine a couple times a week ... and drop my mileage this week, hoping to get a little ahead of my ailments.

Nice work again, Coyote Montane! SCgal...it hardly seems fair to be competing against 49 year old masters. That seems like a lifetime ago!

Feeling a little beat up here Monday morning. Nailed my two workouts last week but legs feel sore and achey still after three easy days. Too much vacationing the past 3 days? Maybe... On Mondays tempo I didn't feel rested after only one day between workouts. Toughed it out with whatever toughness I had. Felt pretty good on Thursdays track workout but man... The days after are rough. Just hoping to survive the next 4 weeks!

Spent the long weekend in Northern MI so I couldn't get away from the hills, or the beer or the food...but we had fun and perfect blue sky weather.

The week went like this. 45.5 miles. Another KP suggested workout on Thursday. Can't remember running a 1000 that fast in a workout, ever. So I guess that's a good sign.

M: 8.32 Miles in 1:01:11 [7:21 per mile] with 3 miles in 17:56.4 (6:03.3,5:59.1,5:54.0)

Y: 6.09 Miles in 49:36 [8:08 per mile]

W: 6.23 Miles in 47:43 [7:39 per mile]

T: 6.1 Miles 400-1000-400-200-200 72.2, 3:02.8, 70.5, 32.6, 32.1

F: 4 Miles in 31:38 [7:54 per mile]

S: 7.75 Miles in 1:01:26 [7:55 per mile]

S: 7 Miles in 54:00 [7:42 per mile]

We have a shorter ladder workout planned for tonite then try to get my legs back for Saturdays 5k.

Have a good week everyone!

Dave

amkelley wrote:

Both my husband and I keep being struck by how my fitness seems at least as good as his (perhaps better) when hiking, but so much worse on a bike. Scrambling up the side of a steep mountain at elevation, my comfortable pace makes him work hard. Yet on bikes I can barely manage to stay on his wheel when he is goofing off putting out almost no effort. I don't know whether I am a terribly inefficient cyclist, he is a terribly inefficient pedestrian, or both. Anyway, it's nice that we can hike together given that cycling together just doesn't work for long.

Suggestion: You carry a heavy pack while hiking, he carries one while biking, plus he rides a mountain bike and you a road race bike. Maybe that would spoil the fun, but perhaps you can judiciously apply some variants at appropriate occasions.

ANOTHER Nice KP Workout Dave!

Funny... I did mine this morning and also hit 3:02. Modified to 2x 150s 1x1000 3:02 1 x 400 66 2 x 200 32-31. Hard to hit that 1000m interval alone isn't it? I'll take it too since I have a massive case of jet-lag having arrived to Portland from Italy only 42hrs ago.

Toronto 1500 will be a tough race with a stellar field but am confident, with planned taper/rest I can hang on for a shot at a round hunk of metal.

Toronto 800 same story and this week's final KP workout will prove confidence with a classic 400-600-400-200 session highlighting the all-out 600.

KP

Hey folks, I have not posted much in the past 6 months.

I am not sure if I'm feeling my age (53) but I'm a little down about how I'm feeling physically and looking for some advice and perhaps some cheerleading.

Been regularly running 3-5 days per week 5-6 miles. Typically at about 9:00 pace. Not as motivated to do more for the following reasons. ...

First item: sore and tight hip. Not really looking for advice on this...just lamenting. I came out of the womb apparently with my left leg separated from the hip and wore a brace where my feet were connected for 18 months to 'fix it'. Incredibly I managed to run under 4:30 for the mile in high school but ran through increasing pain and tightness and within a year post high school stopped seriously running. Started running again about 5 years ago and while the hip is tight every spring as I get into shape it feels better and I get by with a much shorter stride and a focus on a mid foot landing. This year, perhaps I'm not in shape yet, but the pain is not subsiding and I'm getting the shooting pains down into my ankle that made me stop long ago. Been trying some stretches and yoga positions, but I can't even get into the positions to begin with. Will hit the doc when I get back from vacation.

2nd item and perhaps looking for some advice : I am frustrated by incredible muscle soreness. I am sore every single day. I hobble to the bathroom at night on sore feet. I get up off the couch and hobble like an 85 year old man for the first 15 steps. My feet ache. My quads are sore. My hamstring are sore. Everything hurts. And yes it has hurt in the past few years but as I got into better shape I guess it either got tolerable or I tolerated it because I was running fast. But, what's with the soreness?

I talk to other 50+ guys that I play hockey with and they aren't sore like this. I talk to a buddy from college that runs 3 days a week and he's not sore like this? What can I do? I can still play hockey at a high level. And I can still sprint stride for stride with my 16 year old C1 soccer playing daughter. But my body just aches all the time.

Ken.

amkelley wrote:

Both my husband and I keep being struck by how my fitness seems at least as good as his (perhaps better) when hiking, but so much worse on a bike. Scrambling up the side of a steep mountain at elevation, my comfortable pace makes him work hard. Yet on bikes I can barely manage to stay on his wheel when he is goofing off putting out almost no effort. I don't know whether I am a terribly inefficient cyclist, he is a terribly inefficient pedestrian, or both. Anyway, it's nice that we can hike together given that cycling together just doesn't work for long.

This is not a big surprise, even if you don't walk signiciantly more than he does. Walking is far more similar to running than to cycling. Running is proven to improve one's walking efficiency. I'm not sure if cycling has the same effect.

If Mo Farah and Chris Froome went on hiking together, I bet Mo is a far more efficient walker.

My week was a cut back week with a 5k race.

M: swimming 1000m.

T; 7 miles.

W: 7 miles.

R: 5 miles.

F: 3 miles.

SA: 5k race. (24:19, 1st AG)

SU: 7 miles.

Saturday's 5k race was a very small one (about 30 participants). After 200m, I was in 3rd place, and after 1.5km I was 2nd. A high school kid went out fast, and I never saw him again until after the finish. (He was about 2 min ahead of me.) I thought the 1st km split (4:37) was not too bad, but that section was net downhill. And after passing a 60+ yr old guy around 1.5km, I had absolutely no "target" in front of me. I guess this proves I am a really bad "front runner." Okay, technically there was another runner in front of me, but I didn't see him at all. At least I think I provided a good target for the old guy and a 40-something woman behind me, since both finished within 30 seconds after me.

I think one of the reasons I could run faster in a race is that I have someone to chase in front of me. But that benefit did not exist for this one. Hopefully, the next race (Aug. 12) will be a better experience.

Reboot,

You might try walking, swimming or biking days following running days. Also, you might want to vary the loading, for example 5-3-4-8 = 5 miles per day. Sample schedule:

Monday: 5 easy

Tuesday: 3 walk

Wednesday: 3 hard

Thursday: 1,000 yd swim easy

Friday: 4 easy including strides

Saturday: 8 long

Sunday. Off

Igy

Reboot runner wrote:

2nd item and perhaps looking for some advice : I am frustrated by incredible muscle soreness. I am sore every single day. I hobble to the bathroom at night on sore feet. I get up off the couch and hobble like an 85 year old man for the first 15 steps. My feet ache. My quads are sore. My hamstring are sore. Everything hurts. And yes it has hurt in the past few years but as I got into better shape I guess it either got tolerable or I tolerated it because I was running fast. But, what's with the soreness?

What do you do for your recovery?

Icing? Heating? Compression sleeves? Foam rolling? Other forms of self-massaging?

What do you eat and drink for recovery? Does it have enough protein? How about anti-oxidant?

And yes, swimming helps because you soak you body in cold water while working on your cardio. It's my favorite cross-training. And it's more fun than elliptical or stationary bike.

Ken,

Welcome back. I don't think running harder or longer is a good idea. I may have a better idea.

I mixed hockey and running some back in the day. For me, they didn't mix well. Like you, I was constantly sore. It was explained to me that the muscle demands are quite different for these two activities.

The solution? Sorry to say, but for me it was a reduction/elimination of the skating. If you must skate, try goal. Second choice, though much less desirable, would be forward/center. Avoid the D.

Good luck.

I agree wholeheartedly with RF. Swimming has prolonged my running and given me the upper body strength so I don't implode late in runs/races. As my mileage has declined over the last decade, my swimming distance has picked up the slack.