And? Sirpoc has taken it in good humour. You can't say the same when it was the other way around and sirpoc crushed Bester at London . That makes it a score draw. Him and his lackies well all over this thread around that time.
Also, he beat sirpoc by a minute. He has run about 600km since the first week of July and Bester runs full time and has an age advantage. It's hardly really much to shout about really. If anything, you could easily flip it and say how on earth did he not beat him by a lot more? All things considered.
My easy days were and always have been 8 minutes per mile
If your easy runs are anchored to an arbitrary value you will inevitably run them too fast. I’m 90 seconds faster over 5k and 20-40 seconds slower on easy runs using this method. Do you run with a HR monitor? Being under 70% MHR as a hard cap, not an average, means running very slow, even uncomfortably slow at first, but it is what allows you to do 3 high volume quality sessions per week. If you’re using the same easy pace you were prior to increasing your % of quality volume then you are almost certainly carrying too much fatigue into each workout which will always snowball.
I had mixed results using this method for a long time because I simply did not like the number that 70% of maxHR spat out. I would make good progress for 3-4 weeks and then miss a workout, aggravate a niggle etc.
Being anchored to 8 min mile/5 min ks is probably the most common hobbyjogger pitfall I see on my strava feed. Almost a perfect correlation between 3:30-3:00 guys running all their mileage clustered around that mark and “not my day” blog posts
I've had to dial my EZ pace back to 9:20-9:30, but it's at a comfortable 132-138. Hard cap of 140, MHR is 200. 5k is usually 190-195 at the end.
No shame in running in the 9s or 10s! It also allows you to enjoy your EZ runs with other runners.
You also have to consider looking at these guys HR. For sirpoc easy runs around that pace, sometimes you are seeing as low as 61-62% of max HR. I believe he says he doesn't even look at pace on these easy runs, so the pace is just a "whatever it is" situation. Easy pace is a funny thing, two guys can have similar tikes but their true easy pace be distant. I think that is why somewhere in the thread or maybe Strava or Reddit he said he wished he never posted about MAS. Just kept easy days about HR only.
70% is the ceiling. If you know your LT1 let's say 73%, you really should be capping your easy runs way under 70%.
I originally fell into the same trap and couldn't check my ego at the door with easy running. I look back and think over my running life what an idiot I have been and probably if I could change anything it would be going back in time and undoing all the easy miles that I know in reality, were not easy.
There are so many bits of what this system does, so many people just think it's run sub t three times a week. Absolutely, that is the goal, but until you get other smaller things right you might not see progress. The easy run is probably top of the list.
Yeah. I definitely wish I hadn't posted about an easy "pace". There isn't any easy pace and you are definitely correct, it's individual. The key thing is just HR. 70% max is obviously arbitrary, but it's also based in the logic that for the vast majority this is going to be under LT1. in most cases, quite a bit under. For others, it might be closer and clearly running at a much lower % will make sense.
When I speak to people about training like this, the most common reaction is "I can't run that easy, it's impossible". Takes a while I think for people to come aorund.
I really have dived into it in the book, a lot. A long with a lot of other things. I didn't realise until I sat down and wrote it, how much I actually put into making up training and performance outside of what it looks like "4x easy and 3x sub threshold". Even those as a basic concept, there is a hell of a lot to unpick and understand. I really think there is value in understanding in what we are doing and why, rather than just doing. You are more likely to also stick to it, with the understanding and knowledge.
I had a great weekend with Jiggymeister from the thread, we spoke about all these little things a lot and I think even though we have spoken for a couple of years now, I think he was surprised by just how much I am obsessed with marginal gains. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone should be, or should even care outside of the basics of what this thread is, going back to 4x easy and 3x sub threshold.
Thanks again for staying w/us on this thread.
It would be interesting to see (and not saying it will happen) if HS or MS coaches would use this approach, even vanilla, as a long-term tool. Especially as they are time-strapped as well.
I don’t think it can be the same for everyone. My HR is weird. I have a max of 190 but have held 178-179 for a 1:19:00 half. I have run a 16:40 5k and 34:40 10k and 2:42 marathon but the only way I can keep my heart rate under 130pm would be to run at 9:30+ mile pace which feels genuinely uncomfortable. My easy runs are usually 140-145bpm at 7:40-8:30 depending on how I’m feeling and it feels very easy. Once it gets to 150+ the discomfort begins to rise noticeably.
Just my point of view, but the fact that during one race the pace you were able to sustain more than one hour did elicit a HR level doesn't mean that this HR level is lower than your usual LTHR. I wouldn't read too much into this data point, and certainly not base my belief of were my LT effort/pace is on this.
Also, again just my point of view, but I attribute part of my recent improvements (which start to be statistically relevant in the context of me and my former self, but I am still slower than you) to actually spending some time pacing my wife, who is even slower than me, in her own easy runs - which was approx 65% max HR for me. Felt very uncomfortable then and desperately close in HR as what I was used to have in my own, faster easy runs, but after a few sessions I got used to it, then suddenly I managed to stay low without discomfort, then after a bit more time, I actually could run faster without the HR increasing much. Of course maybe the sub-T workouts I was doing in parallel did also have an impact on this, but I wouldn't discount the potential contribution of the slower easy runs.
Do we know what kind of gear the lads were packing? If Bester was on Fast-Rs and sirpoc on Adiclogs that explains the 10% difference.
I wore Fast R 3 and regretted it. They are the only western shoes I have left. Too harsh for me, but they are fast. Did a 10k in them, but is the limit, for me. I doubt I'd run further in them. Should have stuck/ might go back to the adios pro. Or the do-win Adiclogs.
Either way, fast R have had their last outing and I was miles off where I was in the summer whatever I had on my feet. I was 2 days away from running Battersea back then, actually entered, and I was expecting around 14:45-50. Might have even been faster as a friend ran 15:33 which I think even shocked him, he runs the same 5k courses mostly and that was a good 25s faster than anything local to us. So, I'm way off where I was and there's a good chance that ship has sailed, as I might just keep on cycling as well and it's going be very hard to scrape every bit of performance out, in both sports at once.
Hopefully this means like Mussolini and Kennedy, that's the end of the cult of (sirpoc) personality. Some say, jiggy is the new David Koresh around these parts.
No idea what Nick Bester wore, I didn't even know he was until someone pointed him out. All i could think, is why would you run with a camera on your hat. Shame I wasn't faster, I would have given you all 50 mins of the sirpoopy shuffle on the go-pro for his video.
You also have to consider looking at these guys HR. For sirpoc easy runs around that pace, sometimes you are seeing as low as 61-62% of max HR. I believe he says he doesn't even look at pace on these easy runs, so the pace is just a "whatever it is" situation. Easy pace is a funny thing, two guys can have similar tikes but their true easy pace be distant. I think that is why somewhere in the thread or maybe Strava or Reddit he said he wished he never posted about MAS. Just kept easy days about HR only.
70% is the ceiling. If you know your LT1 let's say 73%, you really should be capping your easy runs way under 70%.
I originally fell into the same trap and couldn't check my ego at the door with easy running. I look back and think over my running life what an idiot I have been and probably if I could change anything it would be going back in time and undoing all the easy miles that I know in reality, were not easy.
There are so many bits of what this system does, so many people just think it's run sub t three times a week. Absolutely, that is the goal, but until you get other smaller things right you might not see progress. The easy run is probably top of the list.
Yeah. I definitely wish I hadn't posted about an easy "pace". There isn't any easy pace and you are definitely correct, it's individual. The key thing is just HR. 70% max is obviously arbitrary, but it's also based in the logic that for the vast majority this is going to be under LT1. in most cases, quite a bit under. For others, it might be closer and clearly running at a much lower % will make sense.
When I speak to people about training like this, the most common reaction is "I can't run that easy, it's impossible". Takes a while I think for people to come aorund.
I really have dived into it in the book, a lot. A long with a lot of other things. I didn't realise until I sat down and wrote it, how much I actually put into making up training and performance outside of what it looks like "4x easy and 3x sub threshold". Even those as a basic concept, there is a hell of a lot to unpick and understand. I really think there is value in understanding in what we are doing and why, rather than just doing. You are more likely to also stick to it, with the understanding and knowledge.
I had a great weekend with Jiggymeister from the thread, we spoke about all these little things a lot and I think even though we have spoken for a couple of years now, I think he was surprised by just how much I am obsessed with marginal gains. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone should be, or should even care outside of the basics of what this thread is, going back to 4x easy and 3x sub threshold.
Started doing easy at 70% max about a year ago. Had to run walk for about 2 months. Everytime I hit 137 (70%) walk till it dropped to 120. Just kept on going. Now im running 6.30/6.40 a km with an average hartbeat of 132 for an hour running and never over 137 anymore. Im actually really happy and proud of this.
As with a lot in this program: people just need to put there ego to the side.
Why didn't you run Battersea??? Or is that when you got injured.
And on the topic of sharing easy run pace, I was at around 17:50 for 5k before life made me take 4 weeks completely off. Haven't done a 5k yet but now I need to run 7:20 minutes/km to stay below 70% MHR. Geriatrics blaze past me, but I stick to it.
Have you considered asking Nick to coach you? Would be interesting to find out what you can achieve with a year of proper training and also help elevate your book. I’m sure he would cut you a fair deal.
Have you considered asking Nick to coach you? Would be interesting to find out what you can achieve with a year of proper training and also help elevate your book. I’m sure he would cut you a fair deal.
I'm sure as sirpoc ran past a flagging Bester at London, he thought "I wish that guy was my coach and I ran 40% more than I do now to get worse results"
I wore Fast R 3 and regretted it. They are the only western shoes I have left. Too harsh for me, but they are fast. Did a 10k in them, but is the limit, for me. I doubt I'd run further in them. Should have stuck/ might go back to the adios pro. Or the do-win Adiclogs.
Either way, fast R have had their last outing and I was miles off where I was in the summer whatever I had on my feet. I was 2 days away from running Battersea back then, actually entered, and I was expecting around 14:45-50. Might have even been faster as a friend ran 15:33 which I think even shocked him, he runs the same 5k courses mostly and that was a good 25s faster than anything local to us. So, I'm way off where I was and there's a good chance that ship has sailed, as I might just keep on cycling as well and it's going be very hard to scrape every bit of performance out, in both sports at once.
Hopefully this means like Mussolini and Kennedy, that's the end of the cult of (sirpoc) personality. Some say, jiggy is the new David Koresh around these parts.
No idea what Nick Bester wore, I didn't even know he was until someone pointed him out. All i could think, is why would you run with a camera on your hat. Shame I wasn't faster, I would have given you all 50 mins of the sirpoopy shuffle on the go-pro for his video.
Shame you didn't do Battersea. After your solo 15:01 it was a lock. Would be disappointing if you never get to go sub 15. That's the running life, unfortunately. I have ran 16:04 at Battersea thanks to this training , even on my local fast course 16:32 is my equivalent performance. It really is that fast.
Interesting about the fast r and nice to hear your feedback. Have been thinking about getting a pair myself and wondering how long they can go, in race distance terms.
Everyone was struggling that day, sirpoc just got lucky or maybe he's more heat resistent, who knows. Thing is, Nick learnt from that experience, and demolished him in regular conditions, fair and square.
Everyone was struggling that day, sirpoc just got lucky or maybe he's more heat resistent, who knows. Thing is, Nick learnt from that experience, and demolished him in regular conditions, fair and square.
Hi nick. Probably is you, as you weirdly post under many different accounts on the shoetubers thread.
You run 140-150km weeks. You are effectively a full time athlete, yet get sub par results in comparison with the luxuries that provides. The guy is older than you, runs 30-40% less, works full time in construction , has taken the whole thing in good humour when someone first brought up you finished ahead of him, oh and has barely run since the summer. Also, probably ran his worst executed race ever and STILL got to within about a minute of you. But absolutely crushed you at London, when he had full running fitness. Those who aren't complete morons ran a good race in London, because, you know they know about pacing and conditions.
By the way, for those not new to this thread but new to nick bester, there's a 90% chance this is him. He's notorious for this. He is absolutely desperate to be liked and almost certainly a sociopath. Could be one of his absolutely mental fan club, if you have ever seen this guy at Battersea it's almost funny how non runners , or fat middle aged women who run a parkrun once a week fawn over him.
He is so desperate to be liked by the actual running crowd that is cringe worthy. Must absolutely pain him sirpoc barely knows not only who he is, but that everyone actually, you know, likes him.
Can also confirm that the Fast R-3 are the real deal but my god are they aggressive.
Took them on a ST session a week before a parkrun I was targeting and I immediately dropped 10 seconds per km off my pace from the previous week on the same effort. Also dropped a minute off my 2025 5K time to hit a lifetime PB of 16:46, they are fast.
Problem is, as an overpronator my feet really didn't agree with them. I had a nagging injury for a week after that race that I'm still recovering from now. Stupidly, I continued with 3x ST and 3x easy and ended up introducing several other niggles due to changing my gait because of the original injury. I've now had to take a few days off to fully recover.
Long story short: the Fast R-3 are worth it for a big target race, but in the middle of NSA where steady improvement is the goal I probably made a mistake running in them on that day. 2 steps forward and 3 steps back and all that.
The world needs to see a Sir Poopy vs Sir Nick of Bester round 3 at Battersea Park. Sir Nick in full adidas kit and Sir Poopy in full aliexpress Li-Ning kit.
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