Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Lollys Master wrote:

HowToTellLollyIsLying? wrote:

I know some very smart people that are professors at ETH. I also know a number of very smart people that graduated from ETH. You're not one of them.

I would rather be correct in my first language than wrong in my 4th, but you do you.

Oh yeah, you do? Well name some, maybe we know the same people then.

More likely those people only exist in your head too, just like your Ukrainian family, you liar.

It's not that you "rather", more like you simply didn't learn any other language as there was no such option in your "university of life Alabama"

But for real, why did you lie about having family in Ukraine? Did you think it would give you more credibility? Did you not think, that eventually somebody who has ties in Donetsk will notice you lying?

Lollys Master wrote:

Donbas always has been the problem child for Ukraine, as it has a large Russian population and is highly "Russified" linguistically and culturally. People there identify themselves as Slavs rather than as Europeans.

This war can be over so quick. The world needs to stop caring about imaginary lines on the map and let people of Donbas and Crimea be what they want to be.

I do not understand Zelensky's undying obession of unifying Ukraine by force and at any cost. As far as 1994 there have been referendums about Donbas independence. Let Donetsk and Luhansk go, so the rest of the world can live in peace.

https://www.donbass-insider.com/2020/05/14/the-donbass-referendum-of-1994-on-which-the-whole-world-turned-a-blind-eye/

MasterStrategist wrote:

Right. And, since pre-war polling showed that 40% of people in Donbas wanted to remain part of Ukraine, 30% wanted to join Russia, 10% wanted independence, and the rest were indifferent, it seems like Donbas should remain part of Ukraine. Of course, and election for the foreseeable future is tainted by Russia’s stink.

Similarly, polling in Crimea up to 2014 showed less support for joining Russia than remaining part of Ukraine. A post-invasion referendum is worthless.

Lollys Master wrote:

MasterStrategist wrote:

Right. And, since pre-war polling showed that 40% of people in Donbas wanted to remain part of Ukraine, 30% wanted to join Russia, 10% wanted independence, and the rest were indifferent, it seems like Donbas should remain part of Ukraine. Of course, and election for the foreseeable future is tainted by Russia’s stink.

Similarly, polling in Crimea up to 2014 showed less support for joining Russia than remaining part of Ukraine. A post-invasion referendum is worthless.

I love how you set parameters on when polling is legitimate and when not. According to you it is surely biased once Russian military entered Donbas. But what about people fearing to vote pro-Russian or independant prior to that, while under shelling of AZOV?

Here's a survey for you, conducted by Ukrainian Institute of the Future (Kiev):

Link:www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poll...

Lollys Master wrote:

MasterStrategist wrote:

Right. And, since pre-war polling showed that 40% of people in Donbas wanted to remain part of Ukraine, 30% wanted to join Russia, 10% wanted independence, and the rest were indifferent, it seems like Donbas should remain part of Ukraine. Of course, and election for the foreseeable future is tainted by Russia’s stink.

Similarly, polling in Crimea up to 2014 showed less support for joining Russia than remaining part of Ukraine. A post-invasion referendum is worthless.

I love how you set parameters on when polling is legitimate and when not. According to you it is surely biased once Russian military entered Donbas. But what about people fearing to vote pro-Russian or independant prior to that, while under shelling of AZOV?

Here's a survey for you, conducted by Ukrainian Institute of the Future (Kiev):

Link:www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poll...

MasterStrategist wrote:

Lollys Master wrote:

I love how you set parameters on when polling is legitimate and when not. According to you it is surely biased once Russian military entered Donbas. But what about people fearing to vote pro-Russian or independant prior to that, while under shelling of AZOV?

Here's a survey for you, conducted by Ukrainian Institute of the Future (Kiev):

Link:www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/poll...

So, half of occupied Donbas and less than half of unoccupied Donbas want to join Russia. On the whole, much less than half of the total Donbas want to join Russia. Consistent with what I posted.

Lollys Master wrote:

MasterStrategist wrote:

So, half of occupied Donbas and less than half of unoccupied Donbas want to join Russia. On the whole, much less than half of the total Donbas want to join Russia. Consistent with what I posted.

50.9% + 49.6% is not "much less than half". As opposed to 13.4% of occupied Donbas and 19.2% of unoccupied Donbas wanting to stay in Ukraine.

So more like 8 out of 10 and 7 out of 10 wanted to join Russia in 2019.

Well we will see in a few days how people voted now.

One thing the West needs to recognize / remember, that the referendums of this sort have been held in Donbas and Crimea several times before the war and even before 2014. This is nothing new.

Golden God wrote:

The Russian supporters can argue about Nazis or whatever till their blue in the face. It doesn't change the fact that Ukraine and NATO are fully in for the duration. Russia has bitten off more than they can chew. Russia should prepare for a long and costly war. It's not going well for the Russkies, and it will only get worse for them as time goes on.

MasterStrategist wrote:

Lollys Master wrote:

50.9% + 49.6% is not "much less than half". As opposed to 13.4% of occupied Donbas and 19.2% of unoccupied Donbas wanting to stay in Ukraine.

So more like 8 out of 10 and 7 out of 10 wanted to join Russia in 2019.

Well we will see in a few days how people voted now.

One thing the West needs to recognize / remember, that the referendums of this sort have been held in Donbas and Crimea several times before the war and even before 2014. This is nothing new.

Only Russia cares about their sham referendums. The rest of the world couldn’t care less.