Loss of coordination in leg - Official runner's dystonia / focal dystonia discussion thread

fly137 wrote:

I certainly have some abnormal firing issues with my glutes and hip flexors. The question is, "Why did this happen?" I don't think my mind decided to shut off one day. Plus, why do I feel sensations in my leg when I am sitting right now and typing. My opinion is that there has to be some sort of underlying issue.

The underlying issue in all of these problems is neural. It is the nervous system that controls coordination, and loss of coordination.

As foomiler alludes, the stress of your lifestyle causes the problems. Speed/power must be balanced by endurance, otherwise tensions build up in the nervous system causing the muscles to go into spasm to protect the sciatic nerve.

To reduce the stress, improve endurance and the problem will go away. This require regular doses of gradually increased mileage and pace, perhaps starting with walking and building up.

The usual recomendation of exercizes to solve these imbalances might help, but should be used in addition to improvements in basis endurance.

i don't think this is exactly the case. the underlying cause is not neural in all of these situations. however the causes may lead to neural issues.

with those who have found out that they have a labral hip tear, did you have a deep pain in the butt of the bad leg where your femur connects to your pelvis?

bump

The theme of the thread is loss of coordination in leg.

Anyone who has impaired neuromuscular coordination obviously has a neural problem. This may cause other symptoms, but what causes the problem of loss of coordination should not be confused with symptoms arising from that problem.

Treat the cause not the symptoms.

wellnow wrote:

The theme of the thread is loss of coordination in leg.

Anyone who has impaired neuromuscular coordination obviously has a neural problem. This may cause other symptoms, but what causes the problem of loss of coordination should not be confused with symptoms arising from that problem.

Treat the cause not the symptoms.

I believe the cause isn't neural, but very likely due to an undiagnosed labral tear in the hip joint. You may or may not have pain from the labral tear, but mechanically it will throw you off and lead to all kinds of muscle imbalances and nerve impingements. You can get a labral tear diagnosed through an MR arthrogram.

You're posting on the wrong thread. Maybe you should start your own labral tear thread.

wellnow wrote:

You're posting on the wrong thread. Maybe you should start your own labral tear thread.

No I'm not. Read some of the previous posts. People are finding out they have labral tears. It's underrecognized and underdiagnosed. I've had the exact symptoms everyone describes on this thread, FOR YEARS, and recently discovered I have a labral tear. The only reason I figured it out is because I started getting pain, but I've had the mechanical symptoms described on this thread for a very long time. I assumed it was from all the miles and naturally developing a shuffle, but I've had a recognizable "hitch" on my right side (to go along with the shuffle). I almost think it's a blessing to finally develop pain from it and get it figured out.

You can't diagnose other runners. The main theme of this thread is an extremely common problem, that is the issue I am addressing.

completely agree with you labral tear. wellnow doesn't really seem to know what he is talking about.

wellnow, the UNDERLYING problem may result in nerve impingement but there has to be some sort of chronic or acute trauma in order for this to occur. you can't just have a nerve impingement without something causing it in these situations. loss of coordination can occur due to extreme fatigue and dehydration, but this is obviously not the case for these people. if you had read this thread you would know that the problem is not a lack of endurance in the sense that you have stated. runners like josh mcdougal wouldn't have much of a problem with it. and building mileage up slowly isn't going to do jack.

again, if you had read this read, you would know that several people have had labral hip tears and that has caused their lack of coordination. if you're not going to be constructive, as "Labral tear" has been, stop posting on this thread. for you to dismiss this issue so simply and ignorantly is just arrogant. good day.

what area do you live in and do you have a speciality doctor you recommend to do the mri anthrogram? thanks so much

wellnow wrote:

You can't diagnose other runners. The main theme of this thread is an extremely common problem, that is the issue I am addressing.

I certainly can't, but I can at least relay what I found out (and what appears to be a common theme on this thread, labral tear leads to the crazy leg). This is an underdiagnosed problem that requires an MR arthrogram, and must be treated through arthroscopic surgery because the cartilage in the hip won't heal. I know this is my exact problem because they discovered the labral tear, did a steroid injection in the hip (last week), and for the first time in a long time I can run with 2 normal legs. The injection is a diagnostic tool to troubleshoot the problem to the hip joint/labral tear and will wear off eventually. No amount of speed training, drills, massage, PT, acupuncture, ART, or chiropractic work will solve the "root problem", being the labral tear. Only surgery will.

sameboat wrote:

what area do you live in and do you have a speciality doctor you recommend to do the mri anthrogram? thanks so much

You can do this anywhere. My doctor (orthopedic surgeon) sent me to the local imaging center at the hospital where the Radiologist injected my hip with a dye to illuminate the hip joint. Then they did the MRI. The Radiologist is the one who determines if there's any pathologies. Insurance should cover it (they covered 98% of mine). If they see a suspected labral tear, they'll inject the hip joint with a steroid (either with the MR arthrogram or at a later date after the diagnosis). If that relieves the symptoms, they'll know the problem is the labral tear and needs to be treated by arthroscopic surgery. While a lot of general orthopedic surgeons can perform the surgery, there are only a few who specialize on the procedure (Philippon in Vail, Byrd in Nashville, few others).

thanks for the help, so I'm assuming that the labral tear is in the hip of the bad leg and your other side has no labral tear? You said you use to never have pain, are you certain that now your pain is not something different? It sounds like the solution because I've been able figure things out to compensate for the problem and make it so I can do a lot more then when it first started coming on but there is certainly something structural that has never been addressed. and to the guy who said it's lack of endurance stop adding useful information to this thread. Also how long have you had the lack of coordination? I've had mine forever.

lizard king,

Sorry I was so late in responding to your inquiry.

I went to the UVA speed clinic in April 2009 and did all of the excercises for about 3 months and just didn't see any improvement. It is worth pointing out that this is the same place Josh McDougal went to and despite some optimism that he was improving, in the end it obviously did not work out for him either.

I don't want to make this sound like I am trashing the speed clinic, because I think there is potentially a lot of value in what they do. They were able to identify all of my symptoms, just not the root cause.

After struggling with this for several years, I have reached the same conclusion of others on this thread (particularly "labral tear") that believe some sort of physical trauma is the underlying culprit and all of the exercises and stretches in the world cannot fix this. You need to attack the root of the problem, whatever that is.

I have seen other threads about labral tears over the years and have wondered if this could be what has affected so many of us.

After reading that it is possible to have a labral tear without any pain symptoms, while having symptoms similar to what we describe, I believe it is worth taking a closer look at. I hope that I can eventually find the right doctor that is willing to prescribe the correct tests. This will not be an easy task because most doctors look the other way when you tell them that you are a runner. It is twice as hard when you tell them you do not have any symptoms of pain.

What makes me believe this is a physical injury and not a muscle imbalance is that I can pinpoint the exact moment in time when the problem first appeared. I had several months of the best running of my life, and all of a sudden it happened on the final 200 meters of my last interval. From that point on, even several years later, the problem never left me - even when I walk, I know something is there (even if it is very slight). I am sure the problem was brewing for some time, but there had to be a breaking point. Physical trauma is the only thing that makes sense to me.

sameboat wrote:

thanks for the help, so I'm assuming that the labral tear is in the hip of the bad leg and your other side has no labral tear? You said you use to never have pain, are you certain that now your pain is not something different? It sounds like the solution because I've been able figure things out to compensate for the problem and make it so I can do a lot more then when it first started coming on but there is certainly something structural that has never been addressed. and to the guy who said it's lack of endurance stop adding useful information to this thread. Also how long have you had the lack of coordination? I've had mine forever.

I have no idea if the other hip has a labral tear because the MR arthrogram was only for one hip. The problems have only been on one side (right), the side with the labral tear. Sometimes I've had twinges to the left, but after extensive analyses by my PT (and ART doc too), it's solely my right side. My stride is very asymetrical, and it's strongly evident on a treadmill. I've never felt too comfortable on the treadmill, and since the labral tear flaired up it's esp. bad.

As for the pain, what's miraculous is that since I had the shot last week, not only has it relieved the pain but it also appears to be unwinding the mechanical problems. My stride is opening on the right side and I don't feel it churning the butter (that's how it's felt lately with the pain). I don't feel my leg jarring the ground and there's actually shock absorption in this hip/leg. I also don't feel the muscles around the hip joint getting irritated, which was probably a consequence of the asymmetrical stride.

I don't think I've run right since at least 2007. I've been marathon training (100+ mpw) since 2006, I remember falling on this hip in 2007, and who knows if maybe I had a "silent" labral tear. Again, I've had no pain, just a short, funny stride. It hasn't impacted me at all in the marathon, but I've had a very difficult time in shorter events. It's felt like my stride has been a huge limitation.

Track Dude,

I couldn't agree more with what you said. I visited the Speed Clinic in June of 2009 and they gave me a bunch of glute medius firing exercises that helped but did not get me over the hump of being more than just improved. Did you see a Dr. Wilder there?

I went out to Vail and Dr. Phillippon was "sure" that my problem was not a labral tear, but a stress fracture somewhere in the groin. He was so sure that he sent me for an MRI, a Bone scan, and a CT Scan. No stress fracture. That was a few weeks ago. Since then I am starting to think they forgot about me because they won't return my calls. I expected a little bit better from Dr. Phillippon.

The labral tear, however, may or may not be my issue. I have no improvement with injections in the hip. That leads me to think it's something else. But I still definitely think it's structural and pelvis related.

fly have you always had pain with this? interesting to hear that about Phillippon as I was thinking about visiting him. Who will you see next if he isn't getting the job done?

you guys are so stupid. you waste money seeing person after person and it seems that every month or so there is a new theory about what causes the loss of coordination.

for those of you who claim the laberal tear is the root cause of the problem, have you had surgery? did surgery fix the problem? how do you explain the number of people on here that do not have laberal tears and still have the problem? the response: "well you might not have pain, and it might not show up on an MRI, but it's there, and most likely the root cause of this injury!" is truly ridiculous.

apart from this newly developed laberal tear theory, have any of you just stuck with a training program which you believe addresses this problem, and seen significant results?

for those of you who seem to change theories every couple weeks, how is that going for you?

hskid. wrote:

for those of you who claim the laberal tear is the root cause of the problem, have you had surgery? did surgery fix the problem? how do you explain the number of people on here that do not have laberal tears and still have the problem? the response: "well you might not have pain, and it might not show up on an MRI, but it's there, and most likely the root cause of this injury!" is truly ridiculous.

I just found out, so no, I haven't had the surgery. What is remarkable is the pain and mechanical relief from the cortisone shot in the hip joint. That's the key right there, getting relief from the shot such that you know the problem is strictly in the hip joint. It won't always show up on 'just' an MRI-- you have to get the MR arthrogram to better illuminate the hip joint/labrum. The tear could be subtle enough to not be visualized through imaging, or the pain could be external (~impingement of the psoas, either at the point where it crosses the hip joint or the lesser trochanter). My doctor actually didn't think my labral tear was significant enough to be causing all the problems (said he's seen worse in baseball players, hockey players, etc.). Him and the local Radiologist had to consult with another expert Radiologist to determine if what they were seeing is normal or not. Us runners rely on our body being 100% to perform, so any subtle imperfection can have huge implications (our stride, times). When I got the shot, got relief, and told my doctor, he was a bit stunned. Again, I recommend getting as many opinions on this cause it's underrecognized and underdiagnosed. Sorry if this sounds like a new "theory", but technically it is relatively new.