Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Lolly The Liar wrote:

Lollys Master wrote:

You haven't answered any of my questions, let's try one more time:

1) How much of Ukraine does Russia control?

2) Is Ukraine in the NATO or the EU yet?

Today your posts are weak as hell, dear liar about having family in Ukraine. Go have some coffee and come back.

1) Today, Russia controls around 90,000 square km. of Ukraine (approximately 15%). This is around 10,000 square kilometers less than they controlled a few weeks ago.

2) No. Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU (yet). Ukraine is currently a "candidate for accession to the EU" (as of June 23, 2022). In other words, Russia has accelerated Ukraine's process of joining the EU (and probably NATO as well). Good job Putin.

So... now that we've established that Russia invaded and is trying to annex a neighboring country that was not in NATO or the EU (but may soon be), does that make Putin's aggression okay? Or is he still a murderous a**hole?

Lollys Master wrote:

Lolly The Liar wrote:

1) Today, Russia controls around 90,000 square km. of Ukraine (approximately 15%). This is around 10,000 square kilometers less than they controlled a few weeks ago.

2) No. Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU (yet). Ukraine is currently a "candidate for accession to the EU" (as of June 23, 2022). In other words, Russia has accelerated Ukraine's process of joining the EU (and probably NATO as well). Good job Putin.

So... now that we've established that Russia invaded and is trying to annex a neighboring country that was not in NATO or the EU (but may soon be), does that make Putin's aggression okay? Or is he still a murderous a**hole?

Good job, you seem to have gotten some coffee.

15% still a big chunk. By they way, soon this percentage is gonna drop down by a significant amount, once Donbas joins the RF. Definitely will make a good look on the news: Russia now controls only 5% of Ukraine. Sounds like a win for Ukraine to me.

Yes, Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU yet. The struggle is real, Yushchenko was elected in 2004 and yet still no NATO.

"In 2002, EU Enlargement Commissioner Guenther Verheugen said that "the European perspective for Ukraine does not necessarily mean membership in the next 10-20 years, although it is possible."

"In 2016, President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker stated that it would take at least 20–25 years for Ukraine to join the EU and NATO".

Newsflash, in order to join the EU, a country needs to meet Copenhagen Criteria. Ukraine will never meet the criteria without restructuring its political and economical systems first, which would collapse the current structures and lead to immediate bankcruptcy.

Lollys Master wrote:

agip wrote:

intellectually, the US establishment is indeed ashamed of the Iraq war and regrets it. In retrospect many or even most leaders believe the war should not have happened and was one of the gravest US mistakes of the last 100 years.

But emotionally....agreed it has not hit deep. The nation has moved on. Which is sort of what the US does. Not a lot of looking back in the nation, except for race issues.

In the end, your thesis that the US gets away with stuff other nations do not get away with is partly true. but on the other hand, of course there are many nations where enormous numbers of people are killed or displaced and leaders aren't punished there either. I'm thinking of Africa, where we don't even hear about mass slaughters half the time.

The world is a messy place.

It is indeed very messy. I am not satisfied with the outcome though. The nation has moved on from war crimes in Iraq with shrugging shoulders, yet commissioning of Nord Stream 2 has been halted because of Russia invading Ukraine, with grave threat to the energy supply of the EU.

Austrian leaders have been flying to Qatar to negotiate new gas and oil deals, although Qatar is one of the biggest human rights abusers in the world.

How come West has been shrugging shoulders to wars and crimes of their own and also of the other countries, but drew a line with Russia?

Lollys Master wrote:

MasterStrategist wrote:

Ummm… no, because nobody will recognize Russia’s territorial claims (just like nobody recognizes Crimea as part of Russia).

So your point is that Putin’s and Carmine’s concerns of Ukraine joining NATO and attacking Russia with nuclear missiles was BS and that this was just a war of territorial expansion? I’m SHOCKED!

Ummm yes. As long as Donbas identifies as Russia (just like Crimea), it doesn't really matter who thinks otherwise. Citizens will be issued Russian passports and will their lifes just like everyone else in Russia. If Kosovo can be indepent, then Donbas can be Russian.

Well, since Ukraine never ever will join NATO and Donbas people will be protected from AZOV nazis (legit nazi tattoos, memorabilia etc.), Putins goal will be achieved.

Much more effective than "liberation" of Afghanistan from Taliban by the US, btw.

Lollys Master wrote:

MasterStrategist wrote:

Ummm… no, because nobody will recognize Russia’s territorial claims (just like nobody recognizes Crimea as part of Russia).

So your point is that Putin’s and Carmine’s concerns of Ukraine joining NATO and attacking Russia with nuclear missiles was BS and that this was just a war of territorial expansion? I’m SHOCKED!

Ummm yes. As long as Donbas identifies as Russia (just like Crimea), it doesn't really matter who thinks otherwise. Citizens will be issued Russian passports and will their lifes just like everyone else in Russia. If Kosovo can be indepent, then Donbas can be Russian.

Well, since Ukraine never ever will join NATO and Donbas people will be protected from AZOV nazis (legit nazi tattoos, memorabilia etc.), Putins goal will be achieved.

Much more effective than "liberation" of Afghanistan from Taliban by the US, btw.

Lollys Master wrote:

agip wrote:

well that's simple - RU's wars are threatening Europe so NATO and the west care.

whereas wars and slaughter in the middle east and africa don't threaten europe, the west, NATO, so the West, Europe, NATO doesn't care so much about those.

This is all pretty simple.

I would word it differently: RU showing power in Ukraine is a threat to the US as a world leader, therefore the US is taking action. EU is sitting tight, trying not to stirr anything up and figuring out how to get over the upcoming recession.

The main reason why the world is a hypocrytical mess is because Europe has become very passive and inable to protect its own interests and ideals. Hanging on tight to Americas skirt and keeping eyes shut on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, but barking at Russia as told by the US.

I become more and more convinced that the EU needs to fail in order to restructure itself and become a superpower on its own. Right now politically it's just an Atlantic branch of the US. The world shouldn't be monopolized by the US and needs to have several superpowers to keep balance.

agip wrote:

Lollys Master wrote:

I would word it differently: RU showing power in Ukraine is a threat to the US as a world leader, therefore the US is taking action. EU is sitting tight, trying not to stirr anything up and figuring out how to get over the upcoming recession.

The main reason why the world is a hypocrytical mess is because Europe has become very passive and inable to protect its own interests and ideals. Hanging on tight to Americas skirt and keeping eyes shut on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, but barking at Russia as told by the US.

I become more and more convinced that the EU needs to fail in order to restructure itself and become a superpower on its own. Right now politically it's just an Atlantic branch of the US. The world shouldn't be monopolized by the US and needs to have several superpowers to keep balance.

Weird that you are so angry at US wars that you are ready to accept RU wars.

think that one through. It sounds faulty to me.

agip wrote:

Lollys Master wrote:

I would word it differently: RU showing power in Ukraine is a threat to the US as a world leader, therefore the US is taking action. EU is sitting tight, trying not to stirr anything up and figuring out how to get over the upcoming recession.

The main reason why the world is a hypocrytical mess is because Europe has become very passive and inable to protect its own interests and ideals. Hanging on tight to Americas skirt and keeping eyes shut on Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, but barking at Russia as told by the US.

I become more and more convinced that the EU needs to fail in order to restructure itself and become a superpower on its own. Right now politically it's just an Atlantic branch of the US. The world shouldn't be monopolized by the US and needs to have several superpowers to keep balance.

Weird that you are so angry at US wars that you are ready to accept RU wars.

think that one through. It sounds faulty to me.