The neo-cons (W Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc.) should be prosecuted for war crimes and violating international law. The US should pay reparations to Iraq and Afghanistan. But the fact that this is politically impossible in the US doesn't mean that the US is precluded from providing military aid to Ukraine.
Yes, they should be prosecuted. What's the problem, why is it not done yet? Not enough people in the US are repulsed by what's done?
The us already paid reparations to Afghanistan, they paid it in military equipment left there
Can anyone here help me out: I'm looking for a quote by one of the most authoritative US strategists about how the geopolitical goal of the US was to separate Europe (or Germany) from Russia? This was before Russia - NATO conflict in Ukraine in 2022.
I don't think it was Friedman / Stratfor, though it can't be excluded.
this sort of thing was talked about a lot after the USSR ended...how conservatives felt the US needed to protect its status on top. Many thought that meant preventing other alliances from forming that could challenge NATO. for ex a russia-europe military alliance.
1992:
In a broad new policy statement that is in its final drafting stage, the Defense Department asserts that America's political and military mission in the post-cold-war era will be to insure that no rival superpower is allowed to emerge in Western Europe, Asia or the territory of the former Soviet Union. A 46-page document that has been circulating at the highest levels of the Pentagon for weeks, and which Defense Secretary Dick Cheney expects to release later this month, states that part of the American mission will be "convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests." The classified document makes the case for a world dominated by one superpower whose position can be perpetuated by constructive behavior and sufficient military might to deter any nation or group of nations from challenging American primacy.
How much of the Ukraine does Russia control? Is Ukraine in the NATO or the EU yet? Do people there already live by European standards?
You celebrate winning small battles so much that lose the big picture out of your sight.
And you celebrate Russian aggression because you're the biggest hypocrite in this thread.
How much of territory has Russia gained in the last 4 months? Negative 10,000 square kilometers? Russia is advancing backwards.
I'm sure calling up 300,000 people, handing them a rusty kalachnikov, and bussing them to front line will help. It's definitely a sign that everything is going according to plan for Putin.
Economic analysis posted earlier in this thread showed that there was a direct correlation between economic prosperity and European vs. Russian alignment among former Soviet republics. Of course Ukrainians want nothing to do with Russia. It's a f*cking sh*thole. They're smart enough to realize allying with the West is the path to prosperity, and they chased Yanukovych back to Russia when he tried to tell them otherwise. Sorry your dear mommy and daddy didn't get the message that Russia is a former superpower and a current sh*thole.
You haven't answered any of my questions, let's try one more time:
1) How much of Ukraine does Russia control?
2) Is Ukraine in the NATO or the EU yet?
Today your posts are weak as hell, dear liar about having family in Ukraine. Go have some coffee and come back.
The neo-cons (W Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, etc.) should be prosecuted for war crimes and violating international law. The US should pay reparations to Iraq and Afghanistan. But the fact that this is politically impossible in the US doesn't mean that the US is precluded from providing military aid to Ukraine.
Yes, they should be prosecuted. What's the problem, why is it not done yet? Not enough people in the US are repulsed by what's done?
It is a long standing tradition in the US that the incoming executive branch gives the outgoing executive branch a free pass on their crimes either directly (Ford pardoning Nixon) or implicitly through non-prosecution. The reason for this is that each administration wants to preserve their own impunity by not holding the prior administration responsible for their crimes. And because the authority to prosecute rests in the DOJ under the US Attorney General, there is no real direct political outlet for people to vote for prosecution. The legislature cannot pass a law requiring the DOJ to prosecute. Most seventh graders understand that.
But if you want to get back to Russia, even though the likes of Rumsfeld, etc. see no criminal liability for their actions, there are political repercussions. The neo-cons are largely out of power and irrelevant in the US. Cheney's daughter cannot even keep her seat in a congressional district that has been a Cheney family dynasty for decades because she comes from the neo-con wing of the Republican party and does not like Trump's isolationist policies (to the extent that Trump actually was in practice what he claimed to be in speeches).
In Russia, there are no repercussions for leader's crimes. Putin and Kadyrov only gained power after their murderous wars in Chechnya. Even as Russia gets tens of thousands of its soldiers killed and billions in military equipment destroyed in Ukraine, Kadyrov is sending Chechen troops into Dagestan to violently put down anti-mobilization protests.
and that is the key. In the US, we may not hold our leaders 100% accountable, but we do have a free and open debate about policy which does yield changes. In Russia, leaders have 100% impunity and can keep going in the wrong direction as long as they want by sending troops out to shoot and kill anyone who protests.
Yes, they should be prosecuted. What's the problem, why is it not done yet? Not enough people in the US are repulsed by what's done?
The us already paid reparations to Afghanistan, they paid it in military equipment left there
The US fled and left it to the enemy - the Taliban. How is this a reparation? The US can't bring those large amounts of dead Afghani back to life, but they could and should pay to rebuild the destroyed country. I am not talking about investing either. Actually, sending your toilet paper money is not a solution either and reparations should be paid in gold.
Same goes for Iraq and Iran. Then I will applaud anyone here for holding Russia accountable.
Yes, they should be prosecuted. What's the problem, why is it not done yet? Not enough people in the US are repulsed by what's done?
It is a long standing tradition in the US that the incoming executive branch gives the outgoing executive branch a free pass on their crimes either directly (Ford pardoning Nixon) or implicitly through non-prosecution. The reason for this is that each administration wants to preserve their own impunity by not holding the prior administration responsible for their crimes. And because the authority to prosecute rests in the DOJ under the US Attorney General, there is no real direct political outlet for people to vote for prosecution. The legislature cannot pass a law requiring the DOJ to prosecute. Most seventh graders understand that.
But if you want to get back to Russia, even though the likes of Rumsfeld, etc. see no criminal liability for their actions, there are political repercussions. The neo-cons are largely out of power and irrelevant in the US. Cheney's daughter cannot even keep her seat in a congressional district that has been a Cheney family dynasty for decades because she comes from the neo-con wing of the Republican party and does not like Trump's isolationist policies (to the extent that Trump actually was in practice what he claimed to be in speeches).
In Russia, there are no repercussions for leader's crimes. Putin and Kadyrov only gained power after their murderous wars in Chechnya. Even as Russia gets tens of thousands of its soldiers killed and billions in military equipment destroyed in Ukraine, Kadyrov is sending Chechen troops into Dagestan to violently put down anti-mobilization protests.
and that is the key. In the US, we may not hold our leaders 100% accountable, but we do have a free and open debate about policy which does yield changes. In Russia, leaders have 100% impunity and can keep going in the wrong direction as long as they want by sending troops out to shoot and kill anyone who protests.
+1
as has been pointed out a million times....the genius of democracy is not that it magically elects good and qualified leaders who make good decision....the genius of democracy is that it fires the bad leaders who make the terrible decisions.
The neo-cons got fired.
And that's why the GOP is so dangerous - it is trying to take away the ability of the nation to fire the bad leaders.
And you celebrate Russian aggression because you're the biggest hypocrite in this thread.
How much of territory has Russia gained in the last 4 months? Negative 10,000 square kilometers? Russia is advancing backwards.
I'm sure calling up 300,000 people, handing them a rusty kalachnikov, and bussing them to front line will help. It's definitely a sign that everything is going according to plan for Putin.
Economic analysis posted earlier in this thread showed that there was a direct correlation between economic prosperity and European vs. Russian alignment among former Soviet republics. Of course Ukrainians want nothing to do with Russia. It's a f*cking sh*thole. They're smart enough to realize allying with the West is the path to prosperity, and they chased Yanukovych back to Russia when he tried to tell them otherwise. Sorry your dear mommy and daddy didn't get the message that Russia is a former superpower and a current sh*thole.
You haven't answered any of my questions, let's try one more time:
1) How much of Ukraine does Russia control?
2) Is Ukraine in the NATO or the EU yet?
Today your posts are weak as hell, dear liar about having family in Ukraine. Go have some coffee and come back.
1) Today, Russia controls around 90,000 square km. of Ukraine (approximately 15%). This is around 10,000 square kilometers less than they controlled a few weeks ago.
2) No. Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU (yet). Ukraine is currently a "candidate for accession to the EU" (as of June 23, 2022). In other words, Russia has accelerated Ukraine's process of joining the EU (and probably NATO as well). Good job Putin.
So... now that we've established that Russia invaded and is trying to annex a neighboring country that was not in NATO or the EU (but may soon be), does that make Putin's aggression okay? Or is he still a murderous a**hole?
A report by an independent inquiry into Switzerland's second world war history concludes that Swiss officials "helped the Nazi regime achieve its goals" by closing the country's borders to thousands of Jewish refugees, effect...
Oh wow, you truly think the US helped Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan, don't you?
Much more innocent civilians died in Iraq than in Ukraine. What's the difference? Skin color?
No seriously, how come 100.000 - 1.000.000 dead civilians in Iraq are not worse than the 15.000 in Ukraine?
well first of all the US did not directly do that killing in Iraq - the US unleashed tribal and religious warfare that resulting in that killing.
Certainly an eternal shame to the US but there is a difference.
Yes, big numbers of civilians died in the following warfare, which was caused by the US invasion. Yet, the "shock and awe" campaign of the US has killed almost 8000 Iraqi civilians in two months directly. And no UN mandate for the invasion.
So I'm baffled, who and when is gonna hold Bush Jr. responsible? I also feel no shame exuding from any American I have ever met. You can feel it in Germans, but not in Americans. Nobody's truly ashamed. They might know it was wrong, but they don't really care.
Rumours of a link between the US first family and the Nazi war machine have circulated for decades. Now the Guardian can reveal how repercussions of events that culminated in action under the Trading with the Enemy Act are st...
Yes, they should be prosecuted. What's the problem, why is it not done yet? Not enough people in the US are repulsed by what's done?
It is a long standing tradition in the US that the incoming executive branch gives the outgoing executive branch a free pass on their crimes either directly (Ford pardoning Nixon) or implicitly through non-prosecution. The reason for this is that each administration wants to preserve their own impunity by not holding the prior administration responsible for their crimes. And because the authority to prosecute rests in the DOJ under the US Attorney General, there is no real direct political outlet for people to vote for prosecution. The legislature cannot pass a law requiring the DOJ to prosecute. Most seventh graders understand that.
But if you want to get back to Russia, even though the likes of Rumsfeld, etc. see no criminal liability for their actions, there are political repercussions. The neo-cons are largely out of power and irrelevant in the US. Cheney's daughter cannot even keep her seat in a congressional district that has been a Cheney family dynasty for decades because she comes from the neo-con wing of the Republican party and does not like Trump's isolationist policies (to the extent that Trump actually was in practice what he claimed to be in speeches).
In Russia, there are no repercussions for leader's crimes. Putin and Kadyrov only gained power after their murderous wars in Chechnya. Even as Russia gets tens of thousands of its soldiers killed and billions in military equipment destroyed in Ukraine, Kadyrov is sending Chechen troops into Dagestan to violently put down anti-mobilization protests.
and that is the key. In the US, we may not hold our leaders 100% accountable, but we do have a free and open debate about policy which does yield changes. In Russia, leaders have 100% impunity and can keep going in the wrong direction as long as they want by sending troops out to shoot and kill anyone who protests.
Sorry, I'm not an American seventh grader to understand the fallacy of the system the US has created not be held accountable for war crimes. If people with guns can storm the Capitol, because Trump told them to, then surely there are people who can storm the Capitol to have Bush Jr. prosecuted too.
If you're scared to do so, then you surely can understand Russians being scared to do anything about Putins doings either.
Anyone cares to confirm this? Does the US really have a political system in place, which prevents American president to be prosecuted for war crimes?
So Prescott Bush worked for a company that had a client that supported Hitler in the 1930s.
Switzerland on the other hand...
In addition, the Swiss government ignored official neutrality when it gave Germany and Italy credits to buy Swiss-made machinery and weapons, the commission found.
One of the commission reports focused on forced labor, concluding that Roche and other SWISS [added by me for context] companies used such labor at their German sites.
Research made public Thursday also indicated that Hitler and other top Nazis dealt with Swiss art dealers in trading plundered art works.
But, again, this thread isn't about how terrible Switzerland is, or about American actions in Iraq or elsewhere. It's about Russia's current invasion of Ukraine. Which, everyone except Lolly and Carmine agree is ethically and strategically terrible for the Russians.
well first of all the US did not directly do that killing in Iraq - the US unleashed tribal and religious warfare that resulting in that killing.
Certainly an eternal shame to the US but there is a difference.
Yes, big numbers of civilians died in the following warfare, which was caused by the US invasion. Yet, the "shock and awe" campaign of the US has killed almost 8000 Iraqi civilians in two months directly. And no UN mandate for the invasion.
So I'm baffled, who and when is gonna hold Bush Jr. responsible? I also feel no shame exuding from any American I have ever met. You can feel it in Germans, but not in Americans. Nobody's truly ashamed. They might know it was wrong, but they don't really care.
intellectually, the US establishment is indeed ashamed of the Iraq war and regrets it. In retrospect many or even most leaders believe the war should not have happened and was one of the gravest US mistakes of the last 100 years.
But emotionally....agreed it has not hit deep. The nation has moved on. Which is sort of what the US does. Not a lot of looking back in the nation, except for race issues.
In the end, your thesis that the US gets away with stuff other nations do not get away with is partly true. but on the other hand, of course there are many nations where enormous numbers of people are killed or displaced and leaders aren't punished there either. I'm thinking of Africa, where we don't even hear about mass slaughters half the time.
