50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

WTF?!

Thank you to an unnamed friend who notified me of the disappearance of my post from earlier today. It would seem that my stalker has been up to his shenanigans again. Below is the text that was removed...

My condolences to those of you who knew the fabulous Mr. Fleming. Our paths crossed more than once and I remember those occasions fondly. I will dedicate my run today to his memory.

Also some words of advice to mo'pak and others: ignore the stalker. He also tried to pry personal information from me and then turned on me when I rebuffed his efforts. Very creepy. I only break my silence about him at this time to serve as a warning to others.

Best to most.

Fake Ghost of Igloi needs a public reaming. At the very least an outing. Probably slow as molasses, fat, drunk and obviously stupid.

So I'm 50. I am a recent empty nester so I have much more time than I used to. So I've been doing doubles, picked up weight training, even picked up a new sport (rowing).

This is new. I used to be a regular 40-50 mpw guy racing 5k-HM. I was never a massive worker.

This isn't really a clear question but I'd welcome any input - since I'm not 22 anymore, is it a simple 'do as much work as you possibly can without getting hurt' situation?

Or do olden muscles need more rest to function best? In some cases would I get in better shape if I did less work? Because my muscles are tired all the time?

I'm sure the answer is something like 'listen to your body' but I'm not sure what to do here.

How do you know when too much is slowing you down? I'm a total workhorse - I never get hurt doing anything.

for context,

I ran 17:40 for 5k this year off 40-50 mpw

and in 11/16 I ran 28:45 for 8k off 50 mpw.

no real question wrote:

... I've been doing doubles, picked up weight training, even picked up a new sport (rowing).

This is new. I used to be a regular 40-50 mpw guy racing 5k-HM. I was never a massive worker ...

How do you know when too much is slowing you down? I'm a total workhorse - I never get hurt doing anything.

How much total mileage now? Recent races? Near-term or longer-term goals? I would say, yes, slowly build to the highest volume you can manage. Beware the feeling of invincibility, though. I have seen plenty of reports here of folks being overly optimistic and too aggressive, only to be sidelined for months with injuries.

Like you, I have historically been a low-mileage guy, but am looking to consistently maintain higher volume this year and shoot for an Age-Graded marathon PR this autumn. After making a brief "comeback" in my 40s, I took 13 years off from racing and serious training. Late 50s now. Will be interesting to see what is possible. For you, as well.

no real question wrote:

for context, Iran 17:40 for 5k this year off 40-50 mpw and in 11/16 I ran 28:45 for 8k off 50 mpw.

Ahh... missed your second post. You definitely have talent. I would be interested in seeing your specific training.

no,

It appears you are racing well off the 40-50 mile volume. My view is that your training should be specific to your event and your current ability. Therefore, volume would only be one component, although an important component of your training. I would consider referencing "Jack Daniels' Running Formula" to structure your training to cover all relevant training modalities. Also the FIRST "Run Less, Run Faster" program has good ideas for incorporating non-running activities for recovery.

Igy

Allen1959 wrote:

no real question wrote:

for context, Iran 17:40 for 5k this year off 40-50 mpw and in 11/16 I ran 28:45 for 8k off 50 mpw.

Ahh... missed your second post. You definitely have talent. I would be interested in seeing your specific training.

My training is very basic, textbook:

Tuesday a 3k/5k paced interval workout such as 6 x 800 at 5k pace

Thursday a tempo - usually 4 miles but sometimes more.

Sunday a 10-12 mile longish run

I usually clump races - for ex not race at all for 6 weeks then schedule a 'season' of 3-5 races. I find I get better quickly when I race a lot, but then I need to rest.

If I do something unusual it's many hills - I'll do that 800 workout on the roads, up and down a hilly loop.

The new part is the rowing - that's probably too complicated to discuss here, but right now I am trying something new - running around 30 and rowing 25. Not sure what will happen with that. I will go back to full time running in the fall.

I did around 60 miles running plus rowing last week, but I'm beat. When I was 22 that would have been a good thing and I would have welcomed it...now I'm concerned that I'll not allow my muscles time to heal and rest.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

no,

It appears you are racing well off the 40-50 mile volume. My view is that your training should be specific to your event and your current ability. Therefore, volume would only be one component, although an important component of your training. I would consider referencing "Jack Daniels' Running Formula" to structure your training to cover all relevant training modalities. Also the FIRST "Run Less, Run Faster" program has good ideas for incorporating non-running activities for recovery.

Igy

I'll check out the run less run faster system - that might be very relevant/useful to me

thanks

no,

As you alluded to, so much of this is an "experiment of one." I could run every day up until my late 50s. However, I wish I had incorporated some non-running days at a younger age, since I went thru a period of "fits and starts" until recently (66 years old now). The FIRST program uses rowing along with biking and swimming for alternative non-running exercise. Several of the regular posters use elliptical or walking as supplemental training. I prefer spin bike and walking, more out of convenience.

Igy

no real question wrote:

I did around 60 miles running plus rowing last week, but I'm beat. When I was 22 that would have been a good thing and I would have welcomed it...now I'm concerned that I'll not allow my muscles time to heal and rest.

Might want to back off for a week, then. The advice from Iggy is valid, and he is certainly more accomplished and experienced than I.

As I have been pondering lately what I can do to maximize potential more than ever before, more mileage comes to mind, as I have never consistently maintained 60-plus miles per week. Gotta be careful with that line of thinking, though.

My current training is similar to you, although I use a 9-day cycle to allow more recovery between workouts. A vo2max and an LT workout in each cycle. And a long run and usually a "secondary long run."

Allen1959,

Thanks. I am a big advocate of volume. I think the way you have structured your training on the 9-day cycle, and touching the various training components, is a great schedule. I did something similar a few years back and it seemed to work. I am currently adding volume, but the question always remains of balancing risk versus reward.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Up yours a$$ wipe.

Ha ha laugh wrote:

Fake Ghost of Igloi needs a public reaming. At the very least an outing. Probably slow as molasses, fat, drunk and obviously stupid.

I'm pretty sure that was the real Ghost.

M; off.

T: 5 miles.

W: 4 miles.

R: 3 miles.

F: off.

SA: Half marathon. 1:39:19. (10th AG)

SU: off.

When I signed up for this race, my goal was to run 1:32:xx. So this should be a huge disappointment from that perspective. But a few weeks ago I was not even sure if I should run this race. In the last seven weeks since my previous half, my volume was moderate (topped 50mpw only once), and my intensity was very low (more than 90% at slower than 9 min/mile). I started at the end of Corral A, and gradually increased my pace. I managed to pass the 3:25 pace team near Mile 1, and kept passing people left and right in front of me. It was only good enough for 10th in AG (out of about 140). But I have extended my streak of sub-100 (1:40) half marathon for the 10th straight year. It is a pretty modest standard, but 100 is a nice round number.

Lungarini wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Up yours a$$ wipe.

Ha ha laugh wrote:

Fake Ghost of Igloi needs a public reaming. At the very least an outing. Probably slow as molasses, fat, drunk and obviously stupid.

I'm pretty sure that was the real Ghost.

I'm sure that is insane Detector Dude aka Mike Long.

Your name is registered. It could only have been you. Own up.

no real question wrote:

The new part is the rowing - that's probably too complicated to discuss here, but right now I am trying something new - running around 30 and rowing 25. Not sure what will happen with that. I will go back to full time running in the fall.

I did around 60 miles running plus rowing last week, but I'm beat. When I was 22 that would have been a good thing and I would have welcomed it...now I'm concerned that I'll not allow my muscles time to heal and rest.

So the big question is what intensity is the rowing? I have only read a little bit about it, a few years back, but the schedules looked a little like running - 80% easy, 20% hard. If you are new to the sport, and/or ramping up the volume, 100% easy might be safer.

Then you have to find the right mix with running. A duathlon or triathlon coach might have some insight here. For myself I have found with crosstraining that it's possible to add too much intensity without realizing it until many weeks later.

icars wrote:

Your name is registered. It could only have been you. Own up.

No there is a fake Igy who uses a "1" instead of a capital "i" or some such trick. Troll/stalker/buffoon. The real Igy seems somewhat pedantic but a decent sort. Troll/fake Igy is a cretin.