The Emperor's New Skinz wrote:
"Well balanced?" How? At this point, any article that stops short of declaring Meza's long-term and flagrant cheating to be anything less than a verified fact is either very poorly researched and ignorant of troves of data, or has an agenda.
99.9% of readers will reach that conclusion from the article without the author preaching it at them.
What's up with LA wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Meza was never convicted or anything so most publications are going to be reluctant to state him having cheated as a fact. There was nothing ambiguous about the two photographs at the top of the article. No one is going to read the article and think he didn't cheat.
You mean the picture he quoted Frank's daughter as saying was photoshopped?
She said it, so he included it in article. It's not unusual to for a reporter to quote family members. He also made it clear that she was talking about the earlier photo comparison where he wasn't wearing sweatpants in the running photo. The new photo ended any debate.
If you read any article about O.J. he won't be referred to as a "murderer; it will state that he was acquitted and might also note that he lost in civil court.
It will be apparent to anyone who reads any of the articles, that Meza cheated. What kind of article do you want to be written?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
What's up with LA wrote:
You mean the picture he quoted Frank's daughter as saying was photoshopped?
She said it, so he included it in article. It's not unusual to for a reporter to quote family members. He also made it clear that she was talking about the earlier photo comparison where he wasn't wearing sweatpants in the running photo. The new photo ended any debate.
If you read any article about O.J. he won't be referred to as a "murderer; it will state that he was acquitted and might also note that he lost in civil court.
It will be apparent to anyone who reads any of the articles, that Meza cheated. What kind of article do you want to be written?
We can agree to disagree.
Tone matters as well, Amby Burfoot "grilled" Frank about his running times, meanwhile Lola Diaz "amicably" asked him to cease and desist.
I stand by my assessment that this is a steaming pile of crap clearly written by someone with an agenda.
It was a decent article. It presents some information I hadn't seen before (and I read the whole original thread twice over).
One weakness was how it tried to milk the ambiguity the whole time and never really dealt with the point that Meza cheated, which the article only makes clear, indirectly, at the end of the article.
More importantly, there was a huge amount of photographic evidence well before "Frank on a Bike?" ever turned up, and the author doesn't mention any of it. The pictures of Meza wandering off course at LA and Long Beach were definitive. "Frank on a bike" merely took a sledgehammer to any remaining doubts.
I think the article is balanced. The author presents the family's perspective, but also evidence of cheating. Interesting paragraph on other runners seeing Meza cheat -- and which raises questions about Diaz's knowledge of Meza's activities:
"I spoke to one runner, an acquaintance of Meza, who was cruising down a stretch in Beverly Hills during the 2013 L.A. Marathon when he saw the doctor running on the sidewalk—in the opposite direction. “We made eye contact,” said the runner, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He assumed Meza had given up. “I’m like, ‘Oh, man, he’s having a rough day.’ ” At the end of the race, he was surprised to learn that Meza had finished in three hours—far ahead of him. “He would have had to pass me and beat me,” the runner said, but he hadn’t seen Meza again on the course. A volunteer coach at Loyola had a similar experience and expressed concerns to head distance coach Diaz in April 2019, but Meza continued to coach there. (Diaz did not respond to requests for comment.)"
The article also at least tries to reference the thread, unlike the Online article. Beam took the effort to contact Rojo and work in the quotes.
Amby Burfoot wrote:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/frank-meza-marathon/I assume discussion about the LA magazine online piece will appear here.
I spent a lot of time researching, thinking about Meza, and contemplating whether or not I should write a followup myself. But I think Chris Beam did well enough with few exceptions. And he was on the scene, sat with family. Hard to match that.
If I had written anything, I would have made two main points.
1--Meza cheated. And he was never going to prove himself in the Chicago Marathon or any other witnessed race. If that had been his goal, he could have done it any day of the week with 12 timed and witnessed laps around the Loyola H.S. track.
2--LetsRun and Derrick Murphy did not cyberbully him to commit suicide.
(Also, I did not "grill" Frank Meza when we spoke on the phone. We had a loose, amiable conversation about the confusion around his marathon times. I asked for and he quickly supplied me with three training-partner references. One called me the next day. I never contacted the other two because I had decided--mid April--not to write anything about Meza at that time.)
The evidence that he cheated is as airtight as any evidence can get. And it was corroborated by serious marathon officials at major marathons, even if L.A. reacted slowly. (Which is not necessarily the worst thing in such cases.)
A few LetsRun posters revealed themselves to be, uh, less mature than anyone would wish. However, most posted serious messages, and even crowd-sourced the ongoing accumulation of evidence. Derrick Murphy also only provided evidence. He didn't "pile on." He did what you're supposed to do when investigating a case that is in denial. He kept digging for more details. And he found them.
We are all sorry for the Meza family loss. It's a terrible tragedy. There seems no doubt that he made wonderful contributions to youth, community, medicine, and those closest to him.
We will never know why he chose to commit suicide. Any and all speculation is useless.
RIP Frank Meza.
Murphy deflected and played the victim card in that article.
Well written, fair piece.
Amby Burfoot grilling anybody would be front-page news. He edited Runners World, which didn’t bring down Nixon or Jack the Ripper. Get real.
It was an excellent article. Well balanced as others have said.
I have stated this before that the Frank on a Bike photo is what caused him to take his life. Even with all the press he was receiving and irrefutable evidence, he could say pee break and whatever to cast a shred of doubt at least in the minds of those close to him. The bike photo is the smoking gun. No room to wiggle out of that photo. No more doubt, he was done, a laughing stock. He was at a cross road where his options are admit everything or take his life. He decided he couldn't live with the former.
RIP Frank.
triathleteguru wrote:
The Emperor's New Skinz wrote:
"Well balanced?" How? At this point, any article that stops short of declaring Meza's long-term and flagrant cheating to be anything less than a verified fact is either very poorly researched and ignorant of troves of data, or has an agenda.
As Amby Burfoot noted in his above post, "The evidence that he cheated is as airtight as any evidence can get." Beam's article inexcusably still leaves Mesa's cheating in the realms of accusations and allegations.
I think they are walking a fine line, it is a Los Angeles magazine after all... They do have the photos of Frank on a bike and any reader that reads this:
"On July 3 a LetsRun user posted a photo with the comment: “Frank on a bike?” The image, taken by an official photographer during the 2014 San Francisco Marathon, showed a blurry figure riding a bicycle down the sidewalk. His face was obscured, but his outfit—a black cap, a gray long-sleeve shirt, Nike Zoom Marathoners, green socks—resembled what Meza was pictured wearing at the end of the race. When I sat down with the family and we examined the photo together, they denied that it was Meza. “It looks like someone photoshopped this,” Lorena said, pointing to the shoes. Plus, this man was wearing black athletic pants with a white stripe. “You don’t run a marathon in sweats,” Tina said.".
plus combined with the photos and the article ends with this:
Late on July 4, while word of Meza’s death was starting to circulate, a LetsRun user posted one last series of photos from the 2014 San Francisco Marathon. In each the Golden Gate Bridge looms in the background. And there is Meza, unmistakably, hanging out by a timing mat as other runners blow past him. He wears a familiar outfit: the hat, the shoes, the socks—and long black pants with a white stripe.
They're definitely contradicting the Meza family, just not blatantly...
Exactly. Although it was pretty blatant without actually admitting it was contradicting them. Well done actually.
The characterization of Amby’s demeanor versus Diaz was the biggest flaw.
splitwatcher wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
There was nothing ambiguous about the two photographs at the top of the article. No one is going to read the article and think he didn't cheat.
Completely agree. It was well written, mentions a handful of fraudulent races, and has photographs. No one is going to read the article with an open-mind and come away with any conclusion other than Frank was not on the up and up when it came to racing.
The piece quotes one of my posts. So I agree with at least part of it.
Actually, the article is expertly written and an entertaining read.
It adds new information and perspectives while providing enough detail for readers to connect the dots.
Interestingly, seeing a seemingly-coordinated chorus of Frank supporters, I earlier joked the Frank Clan must have enlisted a Russian Troll factory. Seems I wasn't entirely wrong. The article states "The family hired a company that specializes in online reputation management."
Also, recounting of the conversation between Frank and his wife just before his last run changed;
New Article:
Frank: ‘I think I’m going to go for a run.’
Tina: 'OK’
Frank: 'Let’s have lunch afterwards.’
Tina: ‘Great, where do you want to go?’
Frank: ‘I’ll bring lunch home.’
Tina: 'OK.’
July 5 USA Today article:
"Tina Meza said that her husband told her Thursday morning he was going for a run"
Tina: 'It will be good for you.'
Frank: 'I'll see you later'.
Tina Meza seems to be embellishing.
How does someone bring home lunch from a run?
Ernest wrote:
"Tina Meza said that her husband told her Thursday morning he was going for a run"
Tina: 'It will be good for you.'
Frank: 'I'll see you later'.
Tina Meza seems to be embellishing.
How does someone bring home lunch from a run?
Um, you drive-through or stop at a store. I've brought food home from a run many times.
from the article:
"An hour passed, then two. Tina started to worry. She decided to go look for him and drove to the trailheads where he usually ran. Then she thought to use the Find My iPhone function on Meza’s device. She soon found his car parked near the L.A. River. "
You've researched it and found there were no food places between the trailhead parking lot and his house? What are you even talking about?
The trolls were posting like it was money, 10 pages a day at one point, maybe more.
The ignorance of being Ernest wrote:
Ernest wrote:
"Tina Meza said that her husband told her Thursday morning he was going for a run"
Tina: 'It will be good for you.'
Frank: 'I'll see you later'.
Tina Meza seems to be embellishing.
How does someone bring home lunch from a run?
Um, you drive-through or stop at a store. I've brought food home from a run many times.
from the article:
"An hour passed, then two. Tina started to worry. She decided to go look for him and drove to the trailheads where he usually ran. Then she thought to use the Find My iPhone function on Meza’s device. She soon found his car parked near the L.A. River. "
You've researched it and found there were no food places between the trailhead parking lot and his house? What are you even talking about?
Is the Meza clan still paying for services of an online troll army, or just doing it all themselves now?
I was under the impression Frank ran directly from his home, which would have made him returning with takeout difficult.
I missed mention in the article of Meza driving a car to another location prior to commencing his last run, a detail I hadn't seen in prior LR threads. So I stand corrected in that aspect. Though you are total Dick about it, you do have that part right.
However, there gist was two very different versions of their last conversation were given - and that point stands as direct quotes are provided.
Amby Burfoot wrote:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/frank-meza-marathon/
Good article, much better than that Outside Online one. It's shows that Chris Beam at LA Mag did some research and put effort into it unlike the Outside Online trash piece.
I can see why Chris Beam wrote his article the way he did. He can't explicitly call Frank Meza a cheater because it wasn't a legal judgement and the LA Mag lawyers would not allow that.
He instead writes it so that someone with brain cells can piece some clues together. Although, there are a lot of people who don't know how to use brain cells to think.
I think this requirement led to Chris Beam not being able to write about the decades long trail of evidence that Frank Meza has been cheating for an enormous length of time and not just in a couple of races. Beam couldn't write that Frank Meza's cheating is prolific over decades.
The article is well written...devastating but in a subtle way. LA Marathon...knew what was up but didn't do the right thing because of politics. Loyola...quietly let Meza go but only when the cheating went public. Diaz...had a first hand report but threatened Burfoot to cease and desist. Family...hiring spin doctors to control the narrative, and the post-death "cyberbullying" offense (inside edition was in their living room the next day). The writer was sensitive but the article strongly affirms the truth about the cheating.
Frank was a neighbor but I never met him and did not realize he lived so close until I started following the original thread in May and figured out where he lived. I've been driving by his house almost every day for years now either going to or from work. Very surreal to follow the thread and them watch the initial inside edition story.
The article does a good job of painting everyone in a bad light. From Meza, to Derek Murphy, to the blood-thirsty online goons contacting his employer.
Nice troll. It attempts to paint Amby (a Boston champion) in a bad light, destroying any possible credibility.
You’re right, Ernest, and the third version of that last conversation is going to be, “I’m going to call Amby & forgive him for what he said.”
That way Meza’s lies can outlive him, I guess.
so he/the family actually hired someone to manage his online reputation...telling the truth would have been so much easier and much, much more effective.
it saddens me that the people who love and care for him actually encouraged his madness.
Ernest wrote:
splitwatcher wrote:
Completely agree. It was well written, mentions a handful of fraudulent races, and has photographs. No one is going to read the article with an open-mind and come away with any conclusion other than Frank was not on the up and up when it came to racing.
The piece quotes one of my posts. So I agree with at least part of it.
Actually, the article is expertly written and an entertaining read.
It adds new information and perspectives while providing enough detail for readers to connect the dots.
Interestingly, seeing a seemingly-coordinated chorus of Frank supporters, I earlier joked the Frank Clan must have enlisted a Russian Troll factory. Seems I wasn't entirely wrong. The article states "The family hired a company that specializes in online reputation management."
Also, recounting of the conversation between Frank and his wife just before his last run changed;
New Article:
Frank: ‘I think I’m going to go for a run.’
Tina: 'OK’
Frank: 'Let’s have lunch afterwards.’
Tina: ‘Great, where do you want to go?’
Frank: ‘I’ll bring lunch home.’
Tina: 'OK.’
July 5 USA Today article:
"Tina Meza said that her husband told her Thursday morning he was going for a run"
Tina: 'It will be good for you.'
Frank: 'I'll see you later'.
Tina Meza seems to be embellishing.
How does someone bring home lunch from a run?
Big MACs from Mickey Ds baby! And maybe order it through UberEats app. Then Frankie can pick it up at the front door and bring it home