Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

If you've run the same marathon 7 times and know exactly where the chip mats are every year, I'm sure it's pretty easy to plan a driving route. It wouldn't be so obvious if the good doctor had mixed it up and run a bigger variety of races in different locations, particularly in areas he wasn't familiar with.

Roderick - this is you on one of the earlier pages. You said "To suggest this elderly Doctor is doing all thing, if we really think about is, is laughable".

Do you stand by these words now?

So how would he have hit all the timing mats on the course of he theoretically wasn't running the full course? Maybe a driver that would pick him up and drop him off?

Once you retire you can start training full time like a pro.

Don't know if this particular guy is a cheat or not - but there are already at least two other age groupers gone sub 3 and I do understand that times like these will be more and more common over the next ten years - baby boomers are after all the best preserved generation in history - and with the general realization of our sport now in the 10s that building a marathon base through quantity is an important key we'll see more and more of them using the free time they now have to set PRs they just didn't have the time (or knowledge) for when they were younger.

Nike (or someone) should organize a "Breaking 2:50" attempt with the best 70 year olds in the World.

Thanks for a useless and totally irrelevant post.

Mary Thong wrote:

So how would he have hit all the timing mats on the course of he theoretically wasn't running the full course? Maybe a driver that would pick him up and drop him off?

Correction: He would only have to hit some of the cameras along the course. His bib would have to hit the timing mats. With a bib belt and assistants, he can send the timing chip across the mats whenever needed, with an assistant carrying the bib. He just needs to worry about being on camera when needed. With a color printer, he could produce a second bib good enough for pictures, if necessary. Are there any pictures/videos taken right at timing mats?

With the delayed chip start times - up to 20 minutes slower than gun times - that gives FM extra time to get where he needs to be for a picture or before the chip needs to cross a mat. (Are there pictures of him crossing the STARTING line at the start of his chip time?)

But it also means the he should be passing slower runners for most or all of the race, not getting passed by faster runners. Think about it. If he starts 20 minutes back and runs a 3 hour marathon, he's running 6:52/mile, and finishing with runners who run 7:38/mile - and those are the FASTEST runners he sees. He should spend his whole race blowing by people far slower than him like they're standing still. The earlier in the race, the greater the difference in pace should be.

Meza=Cheater

But I don’t think Derek will help us; he usually prefers to do some original research & we’ve already done all the work!

jesseriley wrote:

But I don’t think Derek will help us; he usually prefers to do some original research & we’ve already done all the work!

On page 6 "koyaanisqatsi3" wrote that in 2015 (!) he sent several emails in frustration (look here on page 6). Meanwhile much material has been added. One might think that this will cause an official review. But nothing happens instead of this thread continues to grow.

There is also his curious habit of wearing two watches. Perhaps one is a GPS watch that gets handed off to the mule along with the race belt, while the other watch keeps track of elapsed time.

One watch could be total time & one watch for elapsed time since last 5K timing mat.

Letsrun ladies - would you drop your 4-hour-marathon boyfriend for a faster man, even if the man is 70 years old?

This seems way way way too complicated to pull off. You're basically suggesting that this guy is working with an Illuminati type running organization that works with perfect percision and had insider information about the race. It knows where the cameras and mats will be, and it's efficient enough to get the runner from timing mat to timing mat in enough time for it to reasonably appear that the guy is running semi-plausible splits, without causing enough of a stir for other runners to really notice.

And why would someone go through all this trouble?

Yes, this fast time seems fishy, but y'all need to figure out better explanations for how someone would be able to pull this off.

Body doubles would be a much better explanation. Hell, even chemtrails would be more plausible.

Wrong! He didn’t know where the cameras ? were! All he needs is an RD who has other things to do (all of them). People cheat in our local races & aren’t DQ’d, same reason: too prominent.

Obviously, I have become way more aware of the many new revealments. How could I not (as a betting man) feel that the likelyhood of FM being guilty as charged is real high. Still, I would prefer absolute proof. That of course is not necessary to DQ someone. More races should have entrants sign a waiver that if they miss 2 mats there time will not count towards awards or placement. Give them their finisher medal only. (or maybe not) I have been convinced 99% based on evidences presented on this thread...that FM has not run legit times. The exact means of which cheating has occured being unknown. FM, has been caught on a video, (2018 LAM) and a sequence of photos, (2019 LAM) perhaps in the very process of cheating. That is a smoking gun. Much more will (and should) come out. If FM runs Long Beach in October, I am sure the truth will be known. If not, then all the contributors on this thread are all mouth and no action. Find out if Long Beach is WR eligible. FM should be a USATF member. USATF reps should then be there.

He doesn't know where the cameras are. That's why he's missing so many photos compared to everyone else. He does know where the timing mats are, because they're always at 5k, and always in the same place. I'm sure he also knows LA really well.

Most of the posters who have questioned "how is he doing this" have never run LA before and obviously don't think about cheating It wouldn't be hard for someone who's motivated to cheat this course. I've run Boston and Chicago. Those two have higher crowd density and more security. Random people jump in and out of LAM at any given time except for the finishing chute. ANY GIVEN time. They're either pacing friends/banditing, doing a training run, running the course for fun during a weekend run, or maybe cheating. I didn't witness this at Chicago and Boston. All someone needs is a few extra pre placed bikes and/or cars. Other people could help but it's not necessary. It's easy to bike or drive a car parallel to the course because it's early morning and most LA motorists avoid the marathon route like the plague.

There's plenty of picture and split data to show he's cheating. Some other things to consider.

1. He starts well after the gun time so he can get lost in the horde and leave the course.

2. The bib belt allows him to remove or hide/obscure the bib whenever he leaves or returns to the course.

3. Two watches allow him to keep total time and split time.

4. Runners are pulling away from him the only times he appears in a progression of photos with other runners.

5. Has anyone in the history of marathoning put up a near age group WR wearing a half zip and a tech-T with a bib belt, two watches, and ran eight age graded 2:25s or better in one year?

Roderick Powell wrote:

Obviously, I have become way more aware of the many new revealments. How could I not (as a betting man) feel that the likelyhood of FM being guilty as charged is real high.

If FM runs Long Beach in October, I am sure the truth will be known. If not, then all the contributors on this thread are all mouth and no action. Find out if Long Beach is WR eligible. FM should be a USATF member. USATF reps should then be there.

If you're a betting man, put money down that he doesn't run LB with all the scrutiny. Bet the over on 3:45 if he does run without cheating. My bet will be on DNS.

Meat Tornado wrote:

Body doubles would be a much better explanation. Hell, even chemtrails would be more plausible.

If I were to run the perfect LAmarathon without actually running the whole thing. I'd have 8 bicycles locked up the night before on side streets. One for each 5k section. I'd bike the side streets and re-enter before each timing mat. If I had an accomplice, tandem bicycle. That's how I would do it. But I wouldn't because that's dishonest. An aside without implying anything in this case. We never found out how Kip did Boston? Did he have bikes or use the T? No one knows to this day. Does it matter? No. The other evidence in the Kip case was enough for a NY Times article.

This is a conceivable summary.