Jamil should absolutely be singled out. He chose to promote Cam and thus is promoting cheating in the sport. Paying for a handful of tests at top races is useless if you are also promoting the parasites that are encouraging cheating across literally thousands of participants at all levels of the sport.
Jamil has went out of his way to ensure better testing at golden ticket races. They automatically test most of the top ten at golden ticket races. I'm pretty sure they do more testing than at by utmb races that are also golden ticket races. Trail and ultra racing in general is pretty crappy at testing anyways, to single out Jamil makes no sense. The only races I can think of off the top of my head I know that have drug testing in terms of independent races and that aren't connected to USATF or utmb/golden tickets are pikes peak marathon and jfk 50 miler. I hope i am wrong and that there is more in competition drug testing for at least the top 10 at ultras. But the bigger issue is out of competition drug testing. Because even if you drug test every single person in the top 25 you are only going catch people that are sloppy/miscalculated the half life. Even if you have out of competition testing of elites, the problem too with ultras is one how do you determine who to test. Just the people with a utmb or itra score above a certain threshold? Because unlike road or track where you see easily someone is at x level because they ran y time. What about a dude that is slaying their local scene and will crush it once they race a by utmb race. But until they actually race a black canyons or a canyons 100k, it is much harder to see where someone is at and who deserves drug testing especially when there is no single sporting body in ultra in charge of out of competition drug testing. Just one example, which by no ways am I implying he is dirty. But will Murray broke out at black canyon. Up till that race his best ultra result was a 17 or 18 hour Leadville time. No indication of someone deserving out of competition testing off of his previous results. But that is the thing with ultra marathons is people have break out performances all the time. Because fitness at ultras races are much weirder than let's say a 5k on the track. You can go into an ultra marathon in the best shape ever but just have one slight thing off, you're not going show your actual fitness. And than you'll have ultras where training was OK, but because everything clicked on the day you have a new PB by a huge chunk.
haha, and then he welcomes Cam with open arms and shared clicks. if any of that goodwill/commitment to testing was true, he pissed it away.
Drew Holman- “Sage loves an internet battle” the boulder boys also punted on it with total bs and said Sage should care about out of contest testing. They are uninformed because sage has been asking for it. Drew Holman ripped Sage as basically an attention seeker.
They're doing a good job of framing this as a Sage vs. Cam issue. Cause the only argument they have otherwise is "drugs are fine, shut up nerd!"
Jamil should absolutely be singled out. He chose to promote Cam and thus is promoting cheating in the sport. Paying for a handful of tests at top races is useless if you are also promoting the parasites that are encouraging cheating across literally thousands of participants at all levels of the sport.
Another thing that makes Jamil's promotion of Cam so bad it that it reveals his true values and the charade of his "clean sport" efforts. Paying for a handful of in comp tests of top finishers where you guaranteed to not catch any dopers (unless they are extremely desperate and stupid) is just an operational cost of basic compliance to be a Golden Ticket race. It's better than not testing of course but it's not a particularly strong stance because there isn't any tough choice made. The resources dedicated are fairly minimal in the overall scale of the race operations. You're not going to catch anyone so it's just a formality.
When given the chance to make a tough choice he chose clicks over clean sport.
Drew Holman- “Sage loves an internet battle” the boulder boys also punted on it with total bs and said Sage should care about out of contest testing. They are uninformed because sage has been asking for it. Drew Holman ripped Sage as basically an attention seeker.
They're doing a good job of framing this as a Sage vs. Cam issue. Cause the only argument they have otherwise is "drugs are fine, shut up nerd!"
Sounds like they have personal problems with Sage honestly.
Dudes are so dumb. They basically say “Cameron Hanes isn’t a pro runner, why does it matter?”.
Bro. He’s as much of a pro runner as any of you guys. Sure their sponsorships are based on a little bit more merit but they aren’t winning any real prize money. It’s all about clicks and eyeballs. I hate how much brands are spending in the trail/ultra space for essentially influencers. You have real oly hopefuls and talented people grinding a way at their full time job and running better times on the roads and track with little or no fan fare.
Jamil has went out of his way to ensure better testing at golden ticket races. They automatically test most of the top ten at golden ticket races. I'm pretty sure they do more testing than at by utmb races that are also golden ticket races. Trail and ultra racing in general is pretty crappy at testing anyways, to single out Jamil makes no sense. The only races I can think of off the top of my head I know that have drug testing in terms of independent races and that aren't connected to USATF or utmb/golden tickets are pikes peak marathon and jfk 50 miler. I hope i am wrong and that there is more in competition drug testing for at least the top 10 at ultras. But the bigger issue is out of competition drug testing. Because even if you drug test every single person in the top 25 you are only going catch people that are sloppy/miscalculated the half life. Even if you have out of competition testing of elites, the problem too with ultras is one how do you determine who to test. Just the people with a utmb or itra score above a certain threshold? Because unlike road or track where you see easily someone is at x level because they ran y time. What about a dude that is slaying their local scene and will crush it once they race a by utmb race. But until they actually race a black canyons or a canyons 100k, it is much harder to see where someone is at and who deserves drug testing especially when there is no single sporting body in ultra in charge of out of competition drug testing. Just one example, which by no ways am I implying he is dirty. But will Murray broke out at black canyon. Up till that race his best ultra result was a 17 or 18 hour Leadville time. No indication of someone deserving out of competition testing off of his previous results. But that is the thing with ultra marathons is people have break out performances all the time. Because fitness at ultras races are much weirder than let's say a 5k on the track. You can go into an ultra marathon in the best shape ever but just have one slight thing off, you're not going show your actual fitness. And than you'll have ultras where training was OK, but because everything clicked on the day you have a new PB by a huge chunk.
Show us how Jamil has gone out of his way to ensure better testing at Golden Ticket Races.
Any testing that Jamil/Aravaipa have had at races are because they are conditional of being apart of the Golden Ticket series.
Dudes are so dumb. They basically say “Cameron Hanes isn’t a pro runner, why does it matter?”.
Bro. He’s as much of a pro runner as any of you guys. Sure their sponsorships are based on a little bit more merit but they aren’t winning any real prize money. It’s all about clicks and eyeballs. I hate how much brands are spending in the trail/ultra space for essentially influencers. You have real oly hopefuls and talented people grinding a way at their full time job and running better times on the roads and track with little or no fan fare.
The trails have lost their soul.
Cam Hanes is as much of a pro runner as Moi and Adam Merry lets be honest.
The guys on The Running Public podcast tackled this last week and did a good job moving past the personalities and got to one of the main issues - how to efficiently test thousands of runners at an event. If someone says, "well, only the top X finishers then..." Hanes DNF'd Cocodona, so would he have been tested? What if someone has a "prescription" for their drug (by clicking a few boxes on a website)? What if it's a blood pressure medication that provides heart rate benefits? I guess that's where the idea of banned vs unbanned substances comes in.
It's a difficult issue without an easy solution, so the big names in the sport weigh the risk vs reward and just punt to keep riding the wave of trail running popularity to the bank for as long as they can.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
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Grammar
The guys on The Running Public podcast tackled this last week and did a good job moving past the personalities and got to one of the main issues - how to efficiently test thousands of runners at an event. If someone says, "well, only the top X finishers then..." Hanes DNF'd Cocodona, so would he have been tested? What if someone has a "prescription" for their drug (by clicking a few boxes on a website)? What if it's a blood pressure medication that provides heart rate benefits? I guess that's where the idea of banned vs unbanned substances comes in.
It's a difficult issue without an easy solution, so the big names in the sport weigh the risk vs reward and just punt to keep riding the wave of trail running popularity to the bank for as long as they can.
sometimes it's pretty easy though, right? like when a runner admits to PED use, you don't let them run, right? you don't feature them on your feeds when they run your race, right? I can imagine all sorts of difficult issues, but this aint one.
I'm putting together a high end poker game, I invited a known hustler/cheat, but don't worry, he rarely wins.
The guys on The Running Public podcast tackled this last week and did a good job moving past the personalities and got to one of the main issues - how to efficiently test thousands of runners at an event. If someone says, "well, only the top X finishers then..." Hanes DNF'd Cocodona, so would he have been tested? What if someone has a "prescription" for their drug (by clicking a few boxes on a website)? What if it's a blood pressure medication that provides heart rate benefits? I guess that's where the idea of banned vs unbanned substances comes in.
It's a difficult issue without an easy solution, so the big names in the sport weigh the risk vs reward and just punt to keep riding the wave of trail running popularity to the bank for as long as they can.
sometimes it's pretty easy though, right? like when a runner admits to PED use, you don't let them run, right? you don't feature them on your feeds when they run your race, right? I can imagine all sorts of difficult issues, but this aint one.
I'm putting together a high end poker game, I invited a known hustler/cheat, but don't worry, he rarely wins.
True, certainly don't have him on for an hour+ on your pre-race show
It’s the same argument des makes to remain on hanes’s good side about all the people that would test hot.
We don’t care about some dad running a 25 min 5k with their kid (unless he’s like 100 years old) or the transplant patient running a 4 hour marathon. It’s a bad faith argument and they should feel dirty for even making it
Jamil has went out of his way to ensure better testing at golden ticket races. They automatically test most of the top ten at golden ticket races. I'm pretty sure they do more testing than at by utmb races that are also golden ticket races. Trail and ultra racing in general is pretty crappy at testing anyways, to single out Jamil makes no sense. The only races I can think of off the top of my head I know that have drug testing in terms of independent races and that aren't connected to USATF or utmb/golden tickets are pikes peak marathon and jfk 50 miler. I hope i am wrong and that there is more in competition drug testing for at least the top 10 at ultras. But the bigger issue is out of competition drug testing. Because even if you drug test every single person in the top 25 you are only going catch people that are sloppy/miscalculated the half life. Even if you have out of competition testing of elites, the problem too with ultras is one how do you determine who to test. Just the people with a utmb or itra score above a certain threshold? Because unlike road or track where you see easily someone is at x level because they ran y time. What about a dude that is slaying their local scene and will crush it once they race a by utmb race. But until they actually race a black canyons or a canyons 100k, it is much harder to see where someone is at and who deserves drug testing especially when there is no single sporting body in ultra in charge of out of competition drug testing. Just one example, which by no ways am I implying he is dirty. But will Murray broke out at black canyon. Up till that race his best ultra result was a 17 or 18 hour Leadville time. No indication of someone deserving out of competition testing off of his previous results. But that is the thing with ultra marathons is people have break out performances all the time. Because fitness at ultras races are much weirder than let's say a 5k on the track. You can go into an ultra marathon in the best shape ever but just have one slight thing off, you're not going show your actual fitness. And than you'll have ultras where training was OK, but because everything clicked on the day you have a new PB by a huge chunk.
Show us how Jamil has gone out of his way to ensure better testing at Golden Ticket Races.
Any testing that Jamil/Aravaipa have had at races are because they are conditional of being apart of the Golden Ticket series.
You must be one of his Livestream shills.
Yes, please back this testing claim up. I’m very doubtful they have tested anyone getting a golden ticket in years (let alone most of the top 10).
The guys on The Running Public podcast tackled this last week and did a good job moving past the personalities and got to one of the main issues - how to efficiently test thousands of runners at an event. If someone says, "well, only the top X finishers then..." Hanes DNF'd Cocodona, so would he have been tested? What if someone has a "prescription" for their drug (by clicking a few boxes on a website)? What if it's a blood pressure medication that provides heart rate benefits? I guess that's where the idea of banned vs unbanned substances comes in.
It's a difficult issue without an easy solution, so the big names in the sport weigh the risk vs reward and just punt to keep riding the wave of trail running popularity to the bank for as long as they can.
That is true, it is also true that one of the hosts spent about 30 seconds at the beginning, saying that in his view, anyone who takes any of these substances should step away from competition, or at least competition where abstinence is formally expected
This post was edited 27 seconds after it was posted.