I'm self coached, and I know what you mean. My coach definitely has an age bias. Man he sucks. He keeps telling me I can't handle the textbook workouts, even adjusted for pace. I would get a better coach, but he's all I can afford.
I'm self coached, and I know what you mean. My coach definitely has an age bias. Man he sucks. He keeps telling me I can't handle the textbook workouts, even adjusted for pace. I would get a better coach, but he's all I can afford.
Listen you are just looking to pick a fight. I said in the same breathe "slowing times," which would adjust your "date pace" times. Even Jack Dniels adjusts the distance based on his VDOT levels.
And tell me about when you are age 66.
Igy
OK, my elder, then please point out the statement where as you say I "am prejudging athletes and forcing them into a mold."
Otherwise I will consider you just another troll.
Igy
Olynyk wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:And some adjustments for aging (slower times) makes sense.
Sorry, that is no different that making adjustments for a rookie athlete in middle school, just in reverse.
Since you are my elder, give me a sample of your goals, how you train, and results. I want to see your philosophy in action, or athletes you coach. My age of course, +65.
If you can't, I will assume you are a troll.
Igy
Olynyk wrote:
You are full of assumptions, not the least of which is that older means slower. We all know runners older than ourselves who are faster than us.
I presume you know the saying about people asssume.
As I thought a troll. The one causing mischief.
Done.
Olynyk wrote:
When you have nothing to say, just say nothing. You need to learn to acquiesce with humility.
Funnier.
Yes, and all too familiar.
Cyber stalker, that is something to record.
Dang, the 50's thread is getting busy, and fiesty!
FWIW...I say oxygen debt. It's usually that point in a race or rep when I can't breath. I really don't think about it too much, it's just what I call it if anyone's around to hear me...
And... I'm an all or nothing runner. I'm trying to grasp the concept of being a recreational runner and to have fun and all but just can't do it yet. I'm going down swinging.
With that being said after a pretty good December, it all came to a screeching halt on Jan 2. Two miles into an easy run, out of nowhere it felt like someone hit me on the back of my calf with a hammer. Ended up walking home and taking 3 days off until the soreness went away. It was probably just a cramp but it almost dropped me. Did 5 this morning and everything felt 100%. I'll get back to my regular training next week.
Have a good week,
Dave
Dave, be super careful with that calf. About a week after my out-of-nowhere calf injury, I had another one, even worse, out-of-even-more-nowhere.
Love this inspiring thread. I'm nearly 54. I am fighting to stay under 18 for 5k and under six pace for 10k. I enjoy the process and difficulty that sometimes involves. When I go to the track, park or treadmill (in winter) to do the fast stuff 1x/week, sometimes twice, I look at the elite level schedule our club coach provides and run the workout at slightly lower volume and pace based on current fitness. If I don't have races coming up, at least once a month I make sure the fast work is very challenging with regard to volume and or pace.
Long runs 1x/week are 11-12 miles with faster running late in the run every other week. All other runs are 8:00-9min/mile for about an hour. One off day every week.
Alan Bennet wrote:
Dave, be super careful with that calf. About a week after my out-of-nowhere calf injury, I had another one, even worse, out-of-even-more-nowhere.
Almost perfect timing. I read your post after my morning run and sure as shit right at 2 miles the exact calf pain happened again out of nowhere! I stopped immediately, stretched and jogged home. Still sore this afternoon.
So what is being careful? I thought I was. I did only easy runs after all pain had subsided. Took three full days off. How do you know when to resume running? Everything felt 100% fine.
Dave
Racerdb,
I have had some calf-Achilles issues as I approached 60, and still do. Eccentric heel drop exercises (straight leg and bent knee) seem to help.
Igy
In response to Rtype's question I am very much the recreational runner.
Happy to be at 90 to 95 % fitness and healthy and relatively injury free.
As a masters runner all my most pleasing races have come when I have had a relaxed approach to the training.
Trying to push that last bit out of this old body has always ended badly.
I miss my running too much when I am injured to risk it all.
Willbefiftyfour wrote:
I am fighting to stay under 18 for 5k and under six pace for 10k....
All other runs are 8:00-9min/mile for about an hour. .
Finally, an older runner who isn't a doofus on training pace.
Racerdb wrote:
Alan Bennet wrote:Dave, be super careful with that calf. About a week after my out-of-nowhere calf injury, I had another one, even worse, out-of-even-more-nowhere.
Almost perfect timing. I read your post after my morning run and sure as shit right at 2 miles the exact calf pain happened again out of nowhere! I stopped immediately, stretched and jogged home. Still sore this afternoon.
So what is being careful? I thought I was. I did only easy runs after all pain had subsided. Took three full days off. How do you know when to resume running? Everything felt 100% fine.
Dave
I suffered through a series of calf issues several years ago. My runs would be going along smoothly, then bam - a significant cramp that left the area very tight and sore for days. I couldn't run on it. After 2-3 weeks I might be back to running and things would again go smoothly for a few weeks, then BAM again.
This went on for several years. Eventually my Achilles started acting up and shut me down big time. I did some research, searched out a Graston practitioner (chiro), and she went at it. Of course the Achilles and calf issues were related, and she worked them both over pretty good. She said it would take 7-10 sessions (twice a week at first, then weekly) and she was right on the money. She had me doing some short, easy runs during the treatment weeks, and after the 10th session I was better than ever. I went 4 years with absolutely no issues after that.
I went back to her recently when the other Achilles acted up. This was more problematic, but after about a dozen Graston sessions I'm pain free and working on building up my endurance. Now I'm trying to be smarter and seeing her every 6 weeks for "maintenance."
Everybody's different, but that's my story. Good luck.
Allen1959 wrote:
Allen1959 wrote:I suppose we're all just trying to maximize our potential, enjoy the journey, and stay as happy and healthy as possible.
With that thought in mind, I have been thinking about following a more formal training schedule. A couple other LRC threads have me considering a 9-day cycle, rather than the regular 7-day week.
Also, although I didn't list any half-marathon goals for 2017, I am considering one in the spring for motivation and to gauge my fitness prior to training specifically for a fall marathon. And I would like to schedule at least one 5K goal race after the half marathon and before starting the marathon training.
With those goals in mind, I am planning a flexible nine-day cycle that would assure some time at marathon pace, lactate threshold pace and at VO2-max pace during each cycle. The emphasis would adjust as I progress through base phase, half-marathon phase, 5K phase and finally marathon phase.
The nine-day plan:
Day 1: LR
Day 2: Off
Day 3: VO2
Day 4: R
Day 5: LR2
Day 6: Off
Day 7: R w/strides
Day 8: LT
Day 9: R
Off: Complete rest or easy bicycle; I had success with a 3-day-a-week schedule last year -- injuring-free and meeting my (modest) racing goals, so am scheduling a minimum of two complete rest days during every 9-day cycle.
R: Easy recovery jog or moderate/hard bicycle (such as 15 to 30 miles at 17-20 mph); if I am really feeling beat up, I would just jog a couple miles, and never more than seven; or maybe just take a third total rest day.
LR: Long run of 12 to 23 miles, depending on where I am in each training phase; I would work up to 18 miles prior to the spring half marathon, and 23 prior to the autumn marathon; each long run would start easy and ideally finish with several miles at marathon pace.
LR2: Secondary long run of 9 to 13 miles finishing with a couple miles near marathon or half-marathon pace; but if I am feeling tired or sore, I would just complete the miles without concern for pace.
V02: This can encompass a range of workouts, from traditional hill or track repeats of 3 to 6 minutes (3K-10K race pace/effort), to progression runs that finish at 10K pace; the idea is to at least touch on VO2-max pace at least once every nine days. If I am targeting a 5K, I would emphasize these workouts leading up to the goal race.
LT: I would include a variety of workouts in this category, such as 4-mile tempo runs, 1.5 to 3-mile repeats (15K to half-marathon race pace), or 5 to 10-mile progression runs finishing at 15K (or half-marathon) race pace.
Strides: Toward the end of an easy recovery run, I would incorporate four to eight 100-meter accelerations, holding mile race pace for 60 meters or so; the goal is to work on running form and efficiency.
Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!
-Allen
Way back in the 80s I was fortunate enough to be around New Plymouth (NZ) while a group of elite Japanese were based there.
The training approach seemed based on a 9 to 10 day cycle. Usually a long run of 40 km in around 2.12!! Reps such as 15 x 1 kms and a tempo run or time trial.
The 2 top guys, twins Shigeru and Takeshi Soh also tossed in a little 128 km run at 4 min km pace while I was there. Well why not? Apparently the plan was for them to run as far as they could at that pace. They just stopped when they felt they needed to slow down.
Takeshi finished 4th in the following years OG.
I also have noted some of the Kenyan elite operate on a 3 day rotation of easy, moderate, hard with various types of hard runs spread over 3 to 4 cycles of the 3 day rotations.
hi dave, below is an email from pete magill that has helped me (maybe? the jury's still out, but i was desperate to try anything) recover from achilles issues. i've been very religious with the eccentric calf exercises, too, and up to this past september, my achilles had been better than they'd been in decades. the last few weeks i've been pretty good about doing most of the exercises in the video/article link...
hope this helps,
cush
-------------------------------------
Hey, Scott Douglas wrote an article on Achilles tendinopathy (ouchy Achilles stuff) that raises a good point: Achilles problems are sometimes hip problems. Along with doing heel dips, my year-long rehab also included the following exercises, which were meant to strengthen my hips/core and stabilize my stride:
Bodyweight Squats
Step-ups
Single-leg deadlifts
Step-downs
Sides steps with resistance band (or side leg lifts)
Just a couple sets of 8-10 reps each, and not to the point of struggling--just enough to get a little work. Seriously, this is just checkmark stuff.
All right, I know you won't do any of that, but I thought I should throw it out there. And here's the link to Scott's article:
http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-prevention-recovery/if-you-have-achilles-pain-look-to-your-hips
mo'pak wrote:
Way back in the 80s I was fortunate enough to be around New Plymouth (NZ) while a group of elite Japanese were based there.
The training approach seemed based on a 9 to 10 day cycle. Usually a long run of 40 km in around 2.12!! Reps such as 15 x 1 kms and a tempo run or time trial.
The 2 top guys, twins Shigeru and Takeshi Soh also tossed in a little 128 km run at 4 min km pace while I was there. Well why not? Apparently the plan was for them to run as far as they could at that pace. They just stopped when they felt they needed to slow down.
Takeshi finished 4th in the following years OG.
Extraordinary! Thanks for that recollection! I had been looking at Pfitzinger training plans, and noted that the VO2-max workouts were spaced two weeks apart, as were LT-pace workouts (alternate weeks). My thought was that by adopting the 9-day cycle, I could hit each of those workouts once every nine days instead of once every 14 days. And still include a lot of recovery days.
The only trade off would be slightly fewer long runs (four every five weeks instead of five). Same with the "secondary long run" that Pfitzinger scheduled weekly.
I think Pete Pfitzinger is still living in New Zealand, after moving there in the 1990s, correct? He was a couple years ahead of me in a neighboring school district in the mid-1970s, so I saw him race quite a few times in high school. I was also a spectator at the U.S. Olympic trials in 1984, where he beat Alberto Salazar. He also made the U.S. Olympic team in 1988. Inspirational guy!
Willbefiftyfour wrote:
I am fighting to stay under 18 for 5k and under six pace for 10k....
All other runs are 8:00-9min/mile for about an hour. .
Pro Mag wrote:
Finally, an older runner who isn't a doofus on training pace.
If 8-9 is non-doofus, would doofus be faster or slower?