50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Thanks Cush,

I recognize the earlier athletes that I ran with Willie Rios and David Greifinger. I went to high school with David, he was a year younger. Also, I recognized Lazlo of course, since I ran under him 1975-1976.

Igy

You bring to mind something Canova wrote. If he gave the same workout, X miles at Y pace, to an American and a Kenyan, and neither runner could do the workout: the American would slow his pace to complete the X miles; whereas the Kenyan would run the Y pace for as far as he could and then stop.

Alan,

In Boise a decade ago we had talented masters runners that worshipped the 3:00 marathon. The training mistakes were pretty obvious to me. Plenty of 12-16 mile runs in the foothills of our town, where it would de extremely hard to run much faster than a 7:30 average mile pace. Yet there was no thought to run the same distance on the road at 6:30-6:40 pace.

Igy

Er, 7:30 average pace targeting a 3:00 marathon sounds to me like a pretty good 16-miler. Even 8:30 would be okay, especially with hills. I would be reluctant to criticize their long runs based on your brief description. Maybe if you gave more detail I might agree with you.

I tried to look up Mt Cobbler on Google Maps. Just a trackless green background!

AB if you google photos of Craig's Hut you will probably get some views of the distinctive Cobbler in the background.

Alan Bennet wrote:

Er, 7:30 average pace targeting a 3:00 marathon sounds to me like a pretty good 16-miler. Even 8:30 would be okay, especially with hills. I would be reluctant to criticize their long runs based on your brief description. Maybe if you gave more detail I might agree with you.

Alan,

Specificity of training was the point. I trained the later way and it was not an issue. Not trying to get you or anyone else to agree with me, only giving my view.

Igy

I would say people with good genetics can push it to the limits, i.e., train hard year round with minimal risk of injury. I see it all time in the masters running club I belong to with the genetically gifted athletes. Generally speaking, these are lighter weight, smaller framed runners with great biomechanics. For some of us though, not so fortunate.

I'm in my mid-50s, with a significant injury history that's regulated me to more of a fitness runner (or as those "arrogant" elite runners like to characterize us as the proverbial "hobby joggers" 😕). I was never built like a traditional distance runner being a football player & sprinter in high school. Now at 160 lbs (5-7), I'm at my high-school weight and about as lean as I can get without resorting to pharmaceuticals, or literally starving myself (runners that can maintain a good matabolism as they age without straving themselves are very lucky).

When I was in my late 40s, I was fairly injury-free and though not as fast as most here on this forum (my goodness...is an "elite" 50+ master's forum with some of the times these folks run?), I could consistently hit sub-20 5ks and run 5: 25 or so in a track mile (at 165 lbs). Now over the last couple of years, I've had an Achilles strain, a patellar tendon strain, hamstring strains, a complete ruptured PTT of the ankle and a major heat exhaustion incident ..all causing many months of missed running and a lot of pain. So, thank goodness for indoor spin bikes...I can get some decent workouts without feeling all beat-up (though the spin bike is nothing like running). And in addition to the cross training, I have a daily life of icing, stretching, rehab...all to run a precious 15 or so mpw and maybe a couple of 5ks a year.

So, if you're generally light & small in statue, and are genetically gifted with great biomechanics (i.e., like the Kenyans are)...then you have the edge and can put in the miles and hard training necessary to run fast and injury-free well into your old age (studies have shown that runners with good biomechanics have far less chronic injuries than those who don't...even at the elite level). And for those of us not so genetically gifted and develop chronic injuries, all we can do is live & rehab to run another day 😑.

Welcome socal cush. 50 is the new 40. Any big goals for you?

An year without injuries, this would be a nice goal for us, runners. Also, running smart is another goal of mine. In terms of using a running app that calculates distance, time, pace and calories.

I'm new to the board. Age 56. I was a runner from high school and through my forties (I ran 25 marathons). I also competed in biathlons and triathlons including 6 IronMan triathlons. From age 50-55 I was a bike racer. This past July 2016 I settled in Gainesville, Florida and began running again.

Lifetime PRs:

1M - 4:40 (High School)

2M - 10:02 (High School)

5K - 16:30 (age 22)

10K - 35:15 (High School)

1/2 Marathon - 1:20:11 (age 22)

Marathon - 2:56:30 (age 22)

40+ PR’s:

5K - 17:24

10K - 37:03

1/2 Marathon - 1:21:54

Marathon - 2:59:15

56+ PR’s (since I started in July 2016):

1M - 5:55 (road)

5K - 20:19

Recent Training

Jan 1 - Ran 15 minutes in am with wife;

Frank Shorter Road Mile Race in 5:55 (Ran ~30-minutes total)

Jan 2 - Ran 19 minutes in am with wife;

Biked 40 miles in 2:26

Jan 3 - Ran 48 minutes

Jan 4 - Ran 19 minutes in am with wife;

Ran 48-minutes in afternoon

Jan 5 - Ran 43-minutes with middle 3 miles at 7:25/mile pace

Jan 6 - Ran 24 minutes in am with wife;

Bike 19 miles in 1:04

Jan 7 - Ran 67 minutes with 1 mile 6:00

Jan 8 - Ran 60 minutes

Jan 9 - Ran 55 minutes with 3x 0.57 mile in 3:32, 3:31, 3:31

Next race on 1/28 will be 15K. Hoping for 7:00-7:15/mile pace.

Funny. Just about everyone here is open and friendly (beware the stalker) and full of great advice.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Welcome socal cush. 50 is the new 40. Any big goals for you?

1) get this achilles healthier so i can get a little more fit. i plan on "racing" in bend usatf x-c, even though i'll be horribly out of shape.

2) run a sub-5 mile soon to extend my streak to 36 years.

3) race the carlsbad 5k for the 10th year in a row and try to podium.

4) focus summer training to gear up for turning 50 and chasing some age group x-c victories (team and individual) and records (road and track)...

thanks for asking,

cush

Just bought one of those new iphone7 plus's...

had heard a lot about it and wanted to try it..

told the lady at At and T in Mesa Az that I would buy one with cash if they'd just help me figure out how to use it..

You would have thought I was asking them for the world.

As we were working with it, the employees were laughing at me behind my back and making snide comments because I didn't know what "clouds" were or had never used wifi.

My first experience with age regret.

They are the ignorant ones. Nobody knows everything -- as long as you are willing to learn there is nothing wrong with not knowing.

"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him." -- Thomas Carlyle

DKaae wrote:

I'm new to the board. Age 56. I was a runner from high school and through my forties (I ran 25 marathons). I also competed in biathlons and triathlons including 6 IronMan triathlons. From age 50-55 I was a bike racer. This past July 2016 I settled in Gainesville, Florida and began running again.

DKaae, I am also relatively new ... joined the thread late last summer as I prepped for my first marathon since 2003 (25th lifetime marathon).

I have a great deal of respect and awe for the elite athletes here, but it's also good to see someone at a similar level as me ... our PRs and masters PRs are very close. And, like you, I set all my lifetime PRs by the age of 23 ... couldn't seem to juggle family, career, etc during my later 20s and 30s well enough to prioritize training. I got serious again in my early 40s, then not-so-much again until recently.

I'm looking forward to following your progress as you focus on running (not bicycle racing now, or planning to do both?).

Hi Allen1959,

No more bike racing. Several crashes in the 5 years I raced (broken ribs, collapsed lungs). It's too dangerous at this age (or really any age). I still love to ride and the cross-training aspect of it.

Iggy, SCGal, I don't know if this is helpful or not but your discussion about training paces and distances is a similar issue that i face coaching a diverse team in regards to ability and I'll try to explain how I handle it here.

I have men that can run 8:45 for 3k and men that run 11:00. I also have women that can run10:20 and a couple that might be able to make 13:00 I also have a racewalker that does 3k in 15:30 or so.

I keep things pretty simple around here. recovery days pretty easy - typically 2:00-2:30 slower then best mile pace and sometimes slower if needed. Distance is usualy 5-12 miles

Long run once a week. (10-15 for most)

That is the easy part - here is what we do about faster stuff.

Say I want to do some intervals at miles pace. I like sets of 300's usually in sets of 3 with 1 minute rest and 2 to 3 minutes between sets. Whether i have a 4:06 miler or I have a 6:00 minute miler they all do the same distance. What I do vary is the number of sets. So my 30 mile a week gal who runs 6:00 may only run 3 sets but the gal running 45 miles a week may do 4 sets.

Now, if i want to to some Aerobic capacity work or vVO2 work then i use their 3k pace. Most of what I have read indicates that a duration of 4 minutes for the intervals is about optimum. So what I do is I try to get each group to do 4-5 reps at 3k pace that take about 4 minutes for tow or three workouts int he season. So that means I might have my 3k racewalker doing 4*800 with a goal of 4 minutes and I would have my 8:45 3k guy doing 1200 in 3:30 and my 10:20 3k gal doing 4*1000 in 3:30-20. I alos have to mange group workouts so sometimes a slower kid get dragged along on an interval length and as with the mile pace 300 the number of reps is some what dependent on volume so the 8:45 guy who runs 60+ miles per week might do 5

With threshold we just try to get them to 20-30 minutes and what ever distance that takes. We vary those a alot anyways.

The actual planning i do is more complex then that but it that is the basics.

My own preference would be to do more quality running and let my easy stuff be on the bike or racewalking the problem for me is i don't really want to do the shorter stuff and feel like I should be doing more marathon paced stuff to help with the tri's. I also get worried about my calves and Achilles doing faster stuff. Well, i hoped that helped.

Good Training

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the detailed explanation of your philosophy. Pretty much follows what I believe but perhaps did not elucidate clearly. That is, workouts should reflect specific targeted training goals rather than a generalized approach. And some adjustments for aging (slower times) makes sense. If one is in a race preparation stage, distance should be tempered to support intensity.

Igy