Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

mr bump wrote:

Free_the_thigh wrote:

12 miles with 6 miles at 15k to hm pace.

Do this on this week. Then stick with speed work.

What’s your thinking behind that one, Free_the_thigh?

It’s from pfitz, was one of his last big tempo workouts. At least for me was a big confidence boost.

I don't see the need to for a 12 mile run with 6 of those miles at half marathon pace if Mr Bump ran 13 miles at half marathon pace last weekend. That half marathon itself covers this session and therefore the shorter reps would be much more beneficial now in my opinion.

marathon is a cruel distance, anything can go wrong. You are lucky if you got it right once in every three attempts unless you are Kipchoge who is like a Swiss watch.

mr bump:

I used 800s a lot in my succesful return to sub3. My suggestion to your question would be 8x800 and 5x800 in about 2.50-2.58 with equal jog rest. It's a good idea to keep speed sessions faster than M-pace. If you have a lot of MP already (I'm assuming your long runs are in the bag as well), that's what I would do (and did).

Good luck!

highhoppingworm wrote:

Thanks Northener. Already bouncing back over here. Taking this week easy and then ramping up for a week or two before going back to normal mileage. I have a HM on 4/5 that I will try to put a good effort into taking advantage of some residual marathon fitness and then I am going to start a 5k/10k training cycle for some target races in late May-mid June. I'll decide on a Looking forward to some faster stuff. Thanks for your support over the last few months. I post my training on the road racing weekly thread if you care to lurk there.

First off - the joy is in the journey, the result is whatever. You got healthy over the last year and that is the most important aspect of it. In a lot of ways, it is a blessing you did not get to your goal as it'll keep you motivating for another training cycle or two (I read that as a good thing!)

Wanted to bump this thread given how important it was to me over the course of late 2019 and early 2020 just as I was starting to take running more seriously.

I ended up breaking 3 this AM in a solo TT. 2:53:09 for 26.3 on GPS. I know this has been inactive for 8 months or so but it seemed only fitting to bump it up one more time. This was some good redemption from blowing up in my target marathon in Feb. It is also interesting that it came at the end of a 5k cycle where I was running 60-65 miles a week. In fact, I haven’t had a long run over 16 miles since the failed marathon back in February.

If any of the original contributors are still out there thanks for all of the help and encouragement. Now onto bigger and better things!

Bump

Never got to run my marathon as things turned pear-shaped last March. Went sub 18 for a solo 5km and spent the rest of the year navigating some pretty rough patches.

Currently 12 weeks out from a fresh sub 3 attempt, following Daniels plan A from the 2nd edition, peaking at 100km a week.

Anyone else locked in to an April 25th marathon?

Not I. In a HM cycle but signed up for Chicago this fall (fingers crossed I get in given I don’t have a qualifier). Good luck in your cycle!

I’m locked in for a late April sub 3 attempt. 2 weeks out from a half that will tell me alot in where to go from my current fitness

Good luck on your sub 3 attempt in April. What has your training been like?

After reading through this thread I am seeing a lot of great results and I am hoping to have something similar either later this year or at the beginning of 2022. Coming back from a longer than desired layoff.

Training has been steady. Lots of consistent high mileage with an emphasis on some fartlek work for an upcoming half and longer tempo runs or repeats into the weekly long runs. I enjoy the long back to back weekends ever since training for my first ultra last year and my coach has really helped me hone in on that strength. Otherwise, I'm just along for the ride.

Have you been averaging over 50+ MPW? I imagine that training base for ultras will be a real advantage for you. Have you run any half marathons during this training cycle?

I will be formulating my plan probably as I get closer to summer and it seems like from what I've read higher mileage can (potentially) give a better chance at sub 3. I ran high 3:02 at the end of 2018 on probably 35-40 mpw using the Daniels Q2 program which I enjoyed.

I am hoping there are some others out there that can get some traction going again on this thread...even though many already crushed sub 3 and kudos to them!

I run alot of miles, between 8:30-7:20s. Sometimes slower end sometimes faster, but I've been averaging 80-100 mpw. I don't race often and have never ran a half as a race for about 6 years now.

I don't have a structured program from daniels or anything. Just following what my online coach has for me atm. he's brought me far from where I started, so I see no need to change what I'm doing now.

highhoppingworm wrote:

Wanted to bump this thread given how important it was to me over the course of late 2019 and early 2020 just as I was starting to take running more seriously.

I ended up breaking 3 this AM in a solo TT. 2:53:09 for 26.3 on GPS. I know this has been inactive for 8 months or so but it seemed only fitting to bump it up one more time. This was some good redemption from blowing up in my target marathon in Feb. It is also interesting that it came at the end of a 5k cycle where I was running 60-65 miles a week. In fact, I haven’t had a long run over 16 miles since the failed marathon back in February.

If any of the original contributors are still out there thanks for all of the help and encouragement. Now onto bigger and better things!

I’m still around. That’s an amazing result, especially solo!

My progress since this thread died off has been much less climactic. Developed Morton’s neuroma last winter after an 18:30 5k

Until recently it had gone away and I had consistently been running, but not at the mileage needed for a marathon.

Did a short 800m cycle and ran 2:14 (I think) in the fall, then had been training for a 5k, I thought I was close to sub 18 shape, but work got busy before my time trial (was training with a group, so I couldn’t just move the date forward) and my mileage dropped off. Ran a 18:34. Overall the focus on speed work has definitely assisted, I can get down to 3:30-3:40 pace relatively easily now, and 4:15 doesn’t seem as daunting.

Unfortunately after the recent 5k I got sick and then my arthritis flared up, so I move been sidelined for a few weeks now.

Still sub 3 dreaming though, hopefully in the fall if races get going

AverageForFun wrote:

I run alot of miles, between 8:30-7:20s. Sometimes slower end sometimes faster, but I've been averaging 80-100 mpw. I don't race often and have never ran a half as a race for about 6 years now.

I don't have a structured program from daniels or anything. Just following what my online coach has for me atm. he's brought me far from where I started, so I see no need to change what I'm doing now.

What was the ultra you did, and how did it go? How long have you been running such high mileage, and how have you noticed the mileage effecting your fitness?

I've been averaging this for about 1.5-2 years. Before it was doubles every day now I only double twice a week unless something happens where life gets in the way.

I did a 50km mountain ultra that took me 7+ hours but that was because of many things: 7500-9000 ft of elevation change, technical trails, broke my nose and fell alot, etc.

I've noticed that aerobically, I feel like I can do anything if I have enough time. Nothing is that strenuous in the 8:30-7:20 pace range and my body doesn't break down. I do get insanely skinny and fuel alot with gels, bars, or candy when running even if I'm not at a race pace intensity. Just because I can go and burn so many calories. However, it is easy to get the feeling of being stuck in 1 gear, just easy. So having two harder sessions mainly on changing gears has helped me alot and is something I've never done before. I can thank my coach for that.

I've noticed it made my fitness very strong, but that I need to go at my own pace for what feels easy that day, and keep it that way. When it becomes time to hammer it out workout wise, I'm all the more excited to do that then.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. That's a lot of climbing for a 50k. I did a 50 miler a couple years ago with 11,000ft of gain. Lots of hiking!

I'm currently running 50-65mpw, almost entirely easy (7:45-8:30). I have definitely fallen into the trap you mentioned (being stuck in easy gear). I can get motivated to do tempos and speedwork for a couple weeks, but I inevitably get burnt out on it, and I fall back to easy mileage.

Interesting that you're eating on the run, even at lower intensities. Do you do this because you're hungry while running, or because it gives you fuel to run longer?

Just because of how many calories I burn in a day running and knowing I’ll need to take in stuff during the race or an ultra. It’s alot easier to maintain high mileage when you maintain a high caloric intake. Can’t do that with just 3 meals. Atleast I can’t since big meals make me ill

Great insight and information. What was your current base before moving up to higher mileage for ultras? I pretty close to "starting over" at this point just putting in 15-20 mpw at the moment.

Do you have any tips for gradually adding mileage? My main focus would be on giving my best chance to avoid injury if possible.

@Feel_the_thigh - Glad to hear you are still keeping the dream alive! I have a voucher for CIM this year if it happens and hopefully that will be my fall goal. Whether sub 3 is in the cards will be dependent on the build up.