Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen just ran a progressive marathon in training, 2:52. About 80% of his 10k pace so neither easy nor hard. Will be interesting to see how the real race goes for him, anybody know when that is?
Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen just ran a progressive marathon in training, 2:52. About 80% of his 10k pace so neither easy nor hard. Will be interesting to see how the real race goes for him, anybody know when that is?
Now this is proper training. None of this sirpoc nonsense. That's just a stroll in the park for kristoffer today. I fully expect him to run much quicker than 2:24 based on this. The king of hobby joggers!
I think you have to have a very strong mentality for this training. Often I don't want to do it, but once you buy in you realise what needs to be done to get the job done. That being said, what he is doing right now whilst he can't run is quite simply beyond what I think most of us could put ourselves through. In many ways, the guy's ability to absolutely do whatever needs to be done, even though he often doesn't want to (I found the recent podcast he was on a a guest interesting from this perspective) is his X factor, outside of thinking about X factor in terms of workouts.
Mentality is weak, or he wouldn't be injured. You cannot replicate hard training on elliptical and bike. Best to just rest up and forget about it. Training like this whilst injured is highly irresponsible and I hope nobody thinks it is a good idea.
Like a number of things in this thread, very bad examples to follow.
I'm going to start doing NSA after my fall marathon. My next marathon is in May 2026, so I will have at least 7 months on NSA. Last year I already bought a Lactate Pro 2 meter which now will come in handy even more.
I think you have to have a very strong mentality for this training. Often I don't want to do it, but once you buy in you realise what needs to be done to get the job done. That being said, what he is doing right now whilst he can't run is quite simply beyond what I think most of us could put ourselves through. In many ways, the guy's ability to absolutely do whatever needs to be done, even though he often doesn't want to (I found the recent podcast he was on a a guest interesting from this perspective) is his X factor, outside of thinking about X factor in terms of workouts.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
I think you have to have a very strong mentality for this training. Often I don't want to do it, but once you buy in you realise what needs to be done to get the job done. That being said, what he is doing right now whilst he can't run is quite simply beyond what I think most of us could put ourselves through. In many ways, the guy's ability to absolutely do whatever needs to be done, even though he often doesn't want to (I found the recent podcast he was on a a guest interesting from this perspective) is his X factor, outside of thinking about X factor in terms of workouts.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I think you have to have a very strong mentality for this training. Often I don't want to do it, but once you buy in you realise what needs to be done to get the job done. That being said, what he is doing right now whilst he can't run is quite simply beyond what I think most of us could put ourselves through. In many ways, the guy's ability to absolutely do whatever needs to be done, even though he often doesn't want to (I found the recent podcast he was on a a guest interesting from this perspective) is his X factor, outside of thinking about X factor in terms of workouts.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
Let me get this straight. You're saying that this method has a major downside in that you see results in the long term?
The bane of the hobby joggers is short term progress followed by injury or burnout. This method is set up to avoid the boom and bust and replace with consistent improvement which, without the peaks and deload of a "normal" plan, will get you fitter long term because it is manageable. The entire premise is based on CONTROLLED INTENSITY
It's crazy so many people don't get it. They really don't understand what is wrong with their training. It's actually quite scary. If you don't believe in this method, fine. But please understand that running too fast, be it easy days or workouts, are 100% the reason you're stagnating, injury prone or over training.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
Enjoy the flaming big man. But, I will say in your defence. I KIND of know where you are coming from. This training is not fun. At all. In fact it's the worst training I've ever put myself through.
BUT I've taken 2 mins off my 5k time and I'm not a new runner. So if that is what has to be done to improve, I'll take it. Just because I'm a hobby jogger, I don't see why I should not aspire to making the most of my training.
Fun training is social training, but it also doesn't deliver anything close to these results.
So whilst I get where you are trying to come from, I would still rather run the best results I can, or what is the point of following any training plan in the first place?
Let me get this straight. You're saying that this method has a major downside in that you see results in the long term?
The bane of the hobby joggers is short term progress followed by injury or burnout. This method is set up to avoid the boom and bust and replace with consistent improvement which, without the peaks and deload of a "normal" plan, will get you fitter long term because it is manageable. The entire premise is based on CONTROLLED INTENSITY
It's crazy so many people don't get it. They really don't understand what is wrong with their training. It's actually quite scary. If you don't believe in this method, fine. But please understand that running too fast, be it easy days or workouts, are 100% the reason you're stagnating, injury prone or over training.
Not to try and totally defend the chap. But you do have to make a choice most likely if you do this training. Being you take the freedom out of running, to get through results.
I'm totally on board and it's easily the best method for any hobby guy, but it's also mentally very tough, more than physical. Perhaps runners are a bit weaker in this sense than cyclists who do way more boring hours and think nothing of it.
Let me get this straight. You're saying that this method has a major downside in that you see results in the long term?
The bane of the hobby joggers is short term progress followed by injury or burnout. This method is set up to avoid the boom and bust and replace with consistent improvement which, without the peaks and deload of a "normal" plan, will get you fitter long term because it is manageable. The entire premise is based on CONTROLLED INTENSITY
It's crazy so many people don't get it. They really don't understand what is wrong with their training. It's actually quite scary. If you don't believe in this method, fine. But please understand that running too fast, be it easy days or workouts, are 100% the reason you're stagnating, injury prone or over training.
Not to try and totally defend the chap. But you do have to make a choice most likely if you do this training. Being you take the freedom out of running, to get through results.
I'm totally on board and it's easily the best method for any hobby guy, but it's also mentally very tough, more than physical. Perhaps runners are a bit weaker in this sense than cyclists who do way more boring hours and think nothing of it.
I don't understand what is "boring" about it? It's running. What is more exciting about a Pfitz or JD program that this?
You've got plenty of workout options. You don't need to stick to the same 3 each week like Sirpoc does.
Even if you do the same 3 workouts every week, what could be more exciting than the ability to review like for like training and see real results such as lower HR for a certain pace?
I don't understand what is "boring" about it? It's running. What is more exciting about a Pfitz or JD program that this?
You've got plenty of workout options. You don't need to stick to the same 3 each week like Sirpoc does.
Even if you do the same 3 workouts every week, what could be more exciting than the ability to review like for like training and see real results such as lower HR for a certain pace?
I'm glad you said this because I couldn't quite articulate what was bothering me about all the "sirpoc's training is boring" Discourse flying around. Gasping around a track wrecking myself with 200's and 400's and 800's was never particularly "fun" for me either. It was actually horrendous and painful and never really achieved much in the way of results. Same with k's or miles at goal race pace. Absolute misery. Usually just glad to get those sessions over with, and pissed me off if I checked the data later and realised I didn't hit all the splits at goal pace. Big psychological knock to the confidence. If anything I'm having more fun now that I run splits aiming for a certain state rather than a goal pace. Pressure is off. Simply get fitter and fitter and then enter a race when you reach critical mass. PB by 30 seconds? Holy sh*t. PB by 2 seconds? Well, still a PB. No PB? Back to it again the very next day. Get fitter and fitter and try again in 4 to 6 weeks. That's the fun part.
Do people mean they have undiagnosed ADHD and require pace change stuff when they say fun? Like you see some of the shoe shoetubers doing a set of threshold reps before spiking up and ripping some all out sprints? Well there's nothing about this method that goes against pace workouts change per se, but the difference is they'd be sub threshold and easily recoverable within 48 hours. Plenty of people are mixing it up. Try out 3K at 30K pace into 1K at 15K pace, repeat twice for 8K of work. Or 4x6min HM pace into 5x90s 10K pace. Combinations are endless. Cutdown, pyramid, ladder, all possible with subt.
If you want variety, run the same paces but vary your route. That's much more fun then hill sprints or strides or whatever is missing.
If you are a social runner, this method is rough, as rigid paces on workout days and a slow long run mean you're probably only able to join others on the short easy days.
If you want variety, run the same paces but vary your route. That's much more fun then hill sprints or strides or whatever is missing.
If you are a social runner, this method is rough, as rigid paces on workout days and a slow long run mean you're probably only able to join others on the short easy days.
On the flip side, I think this method can be extremely freeing for social runners. Most run clubs have groups running at paces that your typical Strava-obsessed hobby jogger would consider beneath him. Once you’ve embraced the concept of running your easy runs slowly, you can actually run with a whole variety of people without worrying about your pace.
The people calling this method “boring” still haven’t grasped just how relaxed and unstructured your easy day can be - as sirpoc said, 70% HR is a max, not a target.
"If you are a social runner, this method is rough, as rigid paces on workout days and a slow long run mean you're probably only able to join others on the short easy days."
or for easy days you could join some slower group...heck sometimes I even join the "old grandma" group,no problem. Only two things are on my watch those days HR + elapsed time. I do not even check the pace and distance.
"If you are a social runner, this method is rough, as rigid paces on workout days and a slow long run mean you're probably only able to join others on the short easy days."
or for easy days you could join some slower group...heck sometimes I even join the "old grandma" group,no problem. Only two things are on my watch those days HR + elapsed time. I do not even check the pace and distance.
Following sirpoc advice to do just what you suggest is the best thing I also did.
I can now go out running with my wife at least one day a week and she thinks I am being a great husband for "slowing down" so I can spend time with her. So there are hidden benefits!
I stopped running with my usual Sunday group, but now a couple of the group of a dozen or so have joined me, my improvement from mid 20 to 18:11 was too much not to notice that whatever I'm doing, my results have sky rocketed and as a result, they are willing to run slower on these days too.
I have more trouble with running friends getting them to buy into the workouts. A lot of them cannot grasp how you could finish with energy left in the tank.
"If you are a social runner, this method is rough, as rigid paces on workout days and a slow long run mean you're probably only able to join others on the short easy days."
or for easy days you could join some slower group...heck sometimes I even join the "old grandma" group,no problem. Only two things are on my watch those days HR + elapsed time. I do not even check the pace and distance.
Yo bro, I'm a sub elite runner. I'm dropping 16 minute 5ks and ran a 2:37 marathon. I would have to run 4:50-5:00/km to keep myself under 70% MHR. You think I can seriously do that? You guys must be high AF. My teammates would LOL right to my face.
Nah this whole thread is absolutely wack I can't take it seriously.
Yo bro, I'm a sub elite runner. I'm dropping 16 minute 5ks and ran a 2:37 marathon. I would have to run 4:50-5:00/km to keep myself under 70% MHR. You think I can seriously do that? You guys must be high AF. My teammates would LOL right to my face.
Nah this whole thread is absolutely wack I can't take it seriously.
You are clearly a good runner. This thread is for noobs and hobby joggers, not sub elite guys like you. Maybe you missed the point.
Top guys obviously doing long steady runs for marathons, MP work and 5k guys obviously doing speedwork. This is for guys who are noobs. You aren't meant to be running that slow if you are 16 runner. You shouldn't even be running below 4/km probably.
I'm glad you said this because I couldn't quite articulate what was bothering me about all the "sirpoc's training is boring" Discourse flying around. Gasping around a track wrecking myself with 200's and 400's and 800's was never particularly "fun" for me either. It was actually horrendous and painful and never really achieved much in the way of results. Same with k's or miles at goal race pace. Absolute misery. Usually just glad to get those sessions over with, and pissed me off if I checked the data later and realised I didn't hit all the splits at goal pace. Big psychological knock to the confidence. If anything I'm having more fun now that I run splits aiming for a certain state rather than a goal pace. Pressure is off. Simply get fitter and fitter and then enter a race when you reach critical mass. PB by 30 seconds? Holy sh*t. PB by 2 seconds? Well, still a PB. No PB? Back to it again the very next day. Get fitter and fitter and try again in 4 to 6 weeks. That's the fun part.
Do people mean they have undiagnosed ADHD and require pace change stuff when they say fun? Like you see some of the shoe shoetubers doing a set of threshold reps before spiking up and ripping some all out sprints? Well there's nothing about this method that goes against pace workouts change per se, but the difference is they'd be sub threshold and easily recoverable within 48 hours. Plenty of people are mixing it up. Try out 3K at 30K pace into 1K at 15K pace, repeat twice for 8K of work. Or 4x6min HM pace into 5x90s 10K pace. Combinations are endless. Cutdown, pyramid, ladder, all possible with subt.
Bored is boring.
I think you are missing the point. To be one of the fast guys in your local races gou have no choice but to do some work on the track like 200s, 300s and 400s. Anyone winning races is doing so, don't be fooled into thinking they aren't.
I do understand this might be a great beginner method, but beyond that stepping stone there really isn't anything more to do.
Something advanced a professional coach can provide is the next step for most people.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
Exactly. There is nothing special here. Why people are following this random guy who seems to run 18 minute 5ks I do not know. Very strange thread. Very strange. As I said, maybe something like this that is incredibly similar to EIM is a nice starter, but it won't get you to the next level. The NOOB method would be a good description.
I think you have raised a really good point. Not to knock sirpoc, big fan of the thread and it's helped by own running immensely! But I don't see him as especially talented, but I do see him as someone clever enough to have worked out how to get good at a niche section of cycling with OK talent and also how to scrape every grain of talent out of his limited hours running and leave nothing on the table.
Mentality is part of that, but it's also understanding what actually are the demands of what will make you faster, with a tunnel vision focus no matter how it looks to the outside. In my mind, there must be a reason and a damn good one as to why he's now on 9 sub threshold workouts for the calendar week. But you also have to have a granite mindset to be able to pull this training off. You aren't thinking about tomorrow, but you are thinking about that race next year. I don't know if people mentioned it here? But someone asked him about easy doubles and he said he hopes to see the benefits of that in 2026. Not now, not next week or even next month, but next year. It must be incredibly hard to get into that mindset and train when you don't want to, when the gains are too far away to even visualise.
I think that is a huge downside of this training method. It works because it's so clearly and cleverly balanced, but that also means you need incredible discipline that a lot of people don't have. You also have to be results orientated rather than choosing to have fun. I'm still not sure it's all worth it?
Now I don't mean that disrespectfully, but if a guy can only muster an 18 after a couple of years of training following Jack Daniels, there isn't a huge amount of elite talent there. Same for his riding, 310w for a 25 mile TT is really nothing special, but as he said you don't need power to be fast at time trials.
I wonder if anyone else is considering quitting this like me, as it just takes the fun off the table.
Exactly. There is nothing special here. Why people are following this random guy who seems to run 18 minute 5ks I do not know. Very strange thread. Very strange. As I said, maybe something like this that is incredibly similar to EIM is a nice starter, but it won't get you to the next level. The NOOB method would be a good description.
sirpoc is running 15 flat so I guess when he takes it to the next level following someone like you he's gonna run what? 13 flat? WR maybe?