Loss of coordination in leg - Official runner's dystonia / focal dystonia discussion thread

With regards to engaging your TVA all the time. It's certainly good advice. At UVA they gave me exercises for the lower abs and TVA. My question is can one actually engage those muscles all the time. Is it possible to concentrate on engaging them so much that they become engaged involuntarily?

fly137 wrote:

With regards to engaging your TVA all the time. It's certainly good advice. At UVA they gave me exercises for the lower abs and TVA. My question is can one actually engage those muscles all the time. Is it possible to concentrate on engaging them so much that they become engaged involuntarily?

Good question.

I guess I can only tell u what I've experienced thus far, not really fr any research or study.I believe the more knowledgeable posters here can do a better job.

From what I've read on Pilates, good posture involves activating the TVA along with adjustments to your head/neck positioning as well as chest and shoulders. If you lift up the back of your head (thus causing the chin to tuck lower towards your throat), and roll back your shoulders (and down towards your hips), and open your chest out and up, you will find that it becomes easy to engage TVA.

The overall effect is that of lengthening your spine upwards from the back of neck, and 'inwards' at the low back/abs area. You should feel 'taller' and 'longer',and your legs and hips feel unloaded.

Imagine yourself a puppet on strings, handled by a puppeteer with string attached at the back of your head. Once the puppeteer picks u up your feet may touch the ground, but there is minimal weight placed upon it by your trunk.

So if you focus on creating (and over time gradually sustaining) the conditions that make for good posture, your TVA will hypothetically be 'involuntarily engaged' as you say.

I'm only 'guessing intelligently' here, and from what I've been practising thus far it appears to be working. But you still need to do the strengthening work, so that when the TVA engages it can hold well, and also for you to get the correct feel of how to activate it, and how holding it feels like. Neuromuscular coordination, I guess.

The process is simple but not easy to execute. Patience and discipline are needed. It can be very easy to overdo it and become very fatigued at first. So my advice is start wherever and whenever u can, like checking your posture when you drive or sit before a computer or run, intermittently at first, like doing "posture fartlek".

So far its done wonders for me, at least. When I focus on the TVA,neck, chest,shoulders, all my loss of coordination disappears. When I lose control everthing falls apart. I guess if u persevere long enough it becomes automatic, and this creates the conditions for any damaged discs to heal, and heal properly at that. After that I believe its a lifelong discipline of keeping good posture.

Hope this answers your question thus far....

Been struggling with this for almost three years. It's evident that the hip flexors on my bad leg are much weaker than the good leg. When they didn't respond to strengthening exercises the doctor's suspicion of a labral tear was confirmed via MRI arthrogram. From what I read pain is almost always associated with a labral tear. I don't have any pain other than some soreness from time to time. I do feel a "click" sometimes in the hip joint. The main symptom is what many of you are experiencing. It's becoming very frustrating having to drag my leg through runs.

Foomiler -

Can you provide a link to TVA exercises you would recommend?

Track dude -

are you still doing the exercises the speed clinic gave you? if so, how is your running coming along? I'm strongly considering going to the speed clinic regarding my condition even if it is on the other side of the country.

Man, I can't believe our old post is still chuggin along. I hope some of you have found answers to your problems.

Foomiler- sorry I took 2 months to reply. Hopefully when I have more time in the next couple of days, I can go back and read some of the new pages. I had a recent class in Denver with a PT/British Osteopath and learned a few more things regarding manipulation aka adjustments and the feed-forward mechanisms that enhance the recruitment of the Transverse abdominus. I'll also try to find some links to exercises.

********I THINK I HAVE SERIOUSLY FOUND THE SOLUTION TO THIS, REALLY, REALLY*********

I have had this problem for almost a year (leg shutting down, turning inward, loss of coordination, toes spasming uncontrollably, landing on lateral part of foot, etc.)

The problem is the glute med's not being able to support your pelvis. THIS EXERCISE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT!

Stand in front of your bed.

Now lie on your stomach ON your bed, but your feet should still be on the floor (so your crotch should be on the edge of the bed. NO LEGS on the bed)

You will do the exercise for BOTH legs.

Take the problem foot and turn it out laterally.

Then -- while keeping the leg straight -- lift the leg behind you and hold it for ten seconds. You should feel a SERIOUS burn in your glute med. Do it ten time with BOTH legs, 2-3 times a day. That should take care of your problem

********I THINK I HAVE SERIOUSLY FOUND THE SOLUTION TO THIS, REALLY, REALLY*********

I have had this problem for almost a year (leg shutting down, turning inward, loss of coordination, toes spasming uncontrollably, landing on lateral part of foot, etc.)

The problem is the glute med's not being able to support your pelvis. THIS EXERCISE SHOULD TAKE CARE OF IT!

Stand in front of your bed.

Now lie on your stomach ON your bed, but your feet should still be on the floor (so your crotch should be on the edge of the bed. NO LEGS on the bed)

You will do the exercise for BOTH legs.

Take the problem foot and turn it out laterally.

Then -- while keeping the leg straight -- lift the leg behind you and hold it for ten seconds. You should feel a SERIOUS burn in your glute med. Do it ten time with BOTH legs, 2-3 times a day. That should take care of your problem

quicksand--I've started doing this excercise. I know this will vary from person to person, but how long were you doing the excersise before you started seeing results? Thank you.

Personally, it was a couple of weeks or so. It's important to understand exactly WHY this exercise is important. And the simple answer to that is that it helps stabilize your pelvis. THAT is what is causing the problem. As you fatigue your pelvis starts tilting forward more and more until the nerves are affected and result in that feeling that you've lost control in the leg. I had it QUITE bad -- even my toes would start involuntarily pushing downward.

One thing I should add to the exercise that I should have put in before:

Have both of your hands positioned on the sides of your pelvis when you do this exercise. So maybe put your hands in your pockets and with your fingers just rest them on the two protruding bones on the left and right. When you lift your LEFT leg, stop at the point where you can really feel your pelvis shifting forward on your RIGHT HAND, and vice versa when you're doing the right leg. Make sure you're doing both legs. If what I said isn't clear let me know. But this exercise WILL fix your problem. When you run, just remember to keep those hips forward and make yourself nice tall, and draw your naval in towards your spine.

Can you explain what you mean by "take the problem foot and turn it out laterally"?

Does this mean that if you were suspended in air and your feet were facing the ground, you would bring the outer side of your foot downward?

InjuredRunner99 wrote:

Can you explain what you mean by "take the problem foot and turn it out laterally"?

Does this mean that if you were suspended in air and your feet were facing the ground, you would bring the outer side of your foot downward?

Nope. You pretty well just bring the leg straight behind you, what I mean by "turn out laterally" is turn your foot so that your toes are pointing the same direction as that side of your body -- so if it's your left leg, your toes should be pointing to the left.

The reason you turn out your leg is to isolate your "gluteus medius", the muscle sort of on the side of your ass. You sould be able to feel the burn on the side of your glute. Make sure that the legs themselves are pretty close together, and that you are bringing it straight up. Then hold it for 10 seconds, and SLOWLY bring it back down.

This condition is ALL about stregthening the glute medius, believe me. I know they seem completely unrelated, but they are VERY related. Like I said before, it's a nervous system reaction that is causing your leg to behave like that. And the nervous system reaction is occuring because your glutes aren't strong enough to support your pelvis.

this exercise has seemed to help me a lot. especially if i keep the leg that's in the air bent instead of straight as shown in the link. With the knee bent at a 90 degree angle it activates the glutes a lot more.

also i know that it is generally not a good idea to train one side to a greater extent than the other, but i usually hold the bad leg in the air for a minute longer than the good leg.

Jer,

I've been struggling with this problem since the fall of 2001. This February it was suggested to me to consider a labral tear, but similarly to you, I didn't have any pain that is usually associated with a labral tear and didn't have the test done. I haven't been on this thread in a long time, but I'm very interested in your labral tear discovery. What is your next step in treatment? Who are you seeing? Juli Henner told me the top doc for labral tears is a guy in Colorado Springs, I believe...

Just wondering quicksand, did you run while you were doing this stretch everyday, or did you just lay off running and do the stretch for a few weeks? I've been doing the stretch but ran a 5k tonight where I had this problem. Its been going on for a few years now but the stretch does seem to help.

centraljg wrote:

Just wondering quicksand, did you run while you were doing this stretch everyday, or did you just lay off running and do the stretch for a few weeks? I've been doing the stretch but ran a 5k tonight where I had this problem. Its been going on for a few years now but the stretch does seem to help.

I do run, yes. But I'm also concerned about the fact you call this a "stretch". This is a strengthening exercise for your glute, it isn't significantly stretching anything. But yeah, I run while doing this, and I haven't had the problem at all lately. Remember, when you're running -- keep TALL, and always make sure your pelvis isn't shifting forward. Also try drawing your belly button inwards. Remember, this is ALL about making a strong pelvic area.

My mistake, I suppose this isn't a stretch. I did notice that when this happens I seem to start to hunch forward. I'll keep up the exercise. Thank you so much for all the information.

centraljg wrote:

My mistake, I suppose this isn't a stretch. I did notice that when this happens I seem to start to hunch forward. I'll keep up the exercise. Thank you so much for all the information.

No problem! And I can guarantee you that if you were to see a side profile of yourself around when this problem strikes, your pelvis would be significantly shifted forward. If you're like me, this problem occurs usually at the faster intensities. Rarely at "easy" pace. I think that once you get aerobically exhausted and start falling apart, your weak glute just CAN'T maintain your body weight -- unless of course it is strong. So keep doing that exercise, 2-3 times daily, until you feel significantly stronger in the glutes. It's all about supporting that pelvis.

What type of shoes do you wear. Regular traiers or flats.