50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Mike Rohl wrote:

yes more disciplined training will almost always make anyone better. How much would be very hard to say without knowing various physical stats and past training practices.

Mike, thanks for the feedback. I've been running/training off and on since 1973. XC and one-mile in high school, 10,000M as a walk-on senior year in college, then road-racing seriously for a couple years (5 mi through marathon), sporadically through late 20s and 30s, dedicated training/racing again in early 40s, and inconsistent training since then.

Training seriously in my 40s (35-50 mpw ... intervals, tempo runs, long runs, hill repeats), I saw rapid improvement for a year (20:00 to 17:30 5K), then reached a point where training merely maintained performance levels (never bettered 17:10 for 5K as a master).

Without continued improvement, my interest waned, and I could no longer justify the time investment.

Now I am looking at new potential goals ... what might be realistic ... 19:15 5K? 3:15 marathon? 5:35 mile? Keep improving for another year? Or will advancing age negate any gains?

My only "recent" race, aside from last month's marathon (7:51/mi), was an 8K (6:46/mi) twelve months ago. At that point, I had been training consistently for six weeks (two runs per week with a 9-12 mi long run). This past summer I was running three days per week, with 15-20 mi long runs. No weights, no hills, essentially no intervals. Some bicycling. My weight came down from 175 to 163. 5'11".

Hope you had a great bike-run workout on a mild November day!

Here is the best video I have found on 80/20.

http://www.canal-sport.fr/fr/insep-training-periodization-deep-root-cultural-heritage-and-innovative-paradigms-2013/insep-ei_13_10_va_pr_stephen_seiler-mov

Kevin

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Dave, best wishes on a fast 1/2 in Indy, we used to run some good races in and around Eagle Creek Park many moons ago. How much time for recovery do you take from the hard tempo runs that you do beforehand?

Usually 2-3 days of easy running between workouts. On Fridays tempo I didn't decide to give it go until after 2 miles in the warmup. Being tired and sick all week, I wasn't sure how it would go.

Dave

Hey Al,

So I think you have a lot of "cards" left to play based on what you told me. your weight is in a good place so that is a start. I think you could run 19:15 and 5:35. I have run those times - including the 6 miles at 6:45 so I think that is in reach.

I tell the guys i work with - and my self too - to introduce only one major training component at a time. Again, based on what you told me the thing that would bring the most immediate results and improve your running long term would be add in in hill repeats. So now I'll put on my coach hat to talk about how I coach hills and why. The hill training would be over 6-10 weeks. Pick 2 to 3 different hills to run. They can vary in steepness though we lose a lot of power so too steep doesn't help us at our age. The length should be any where from 150 to 300m. I have a place where I can run back and forth between hills so I get could variety in. Anywhere from 8-12 reps. Rotating sites also allows you time to improve between sessions - if you want to see progress. Here is the catch though - I don't run them hard. I just run up the hill with a good effort and the best mid-foot technique I can muster. Basically hills of any kind and effort improve power output and economy so you don't have to do them hard to get that effect.

So one day a week run your long run like 10 miles or so, one day a week run the hills and one day a week do and easy to moderate distance run. If you do some biking on other days that would be fun too.

I don't know if you have a GPS or not but a good GPS watch and Strava make running a lot of fun too.

Also, go run the 5ks and don't worry about the times just go and have fun, sometimes don't even try to run fast. It is kind of interesting to be running along easy with untrained athletes who are huffing and puffing. It does the self esteem good :)

Mike, Thanks for joining and bringing your professional expertise. I've already benefited.

Tonight I interrupted an easy 6 mile run at the halfway point with 6 150 yard power post to post buildups with a 150 yard power post walk. Usually I would just do my 6.

Just for some background I'm one of those guys that stopped running at 20 and then picked it back up at 49 after a couple of false starts every decade.

So I'm still improving and if I could drop 20 pounds maybe I could break 20 for 5k. But I've been lamenting those 20 pounds forever.

Cheers

Ken.

Hey Ken

I can understand about the weight when I stopped competing at the National level in 01 I thought I would just jog and run with my team. That didn't workout so well for me. When I took the job here I had no assistants and the expectation of having a full team. So I coached all the events my self. That was 3- practices a day. Bottom line was my bottom got bigger. I got up to 240lbs and a year and half ago in may I had enough so I did something about it. I couldn't run or swim or racewalk so I got a new bike. I did 5000 miles in 7 months and lost 60lbs. Even though we are mostly runner the one thing I am not afraid to do is try anything that works and help. ou can rid a lot for a few months and lose the weight (and I mean a lot) then come back to running. I had not problem once I got down to 180 I was able to run and within 5 weeks was running 10 miles in 75 minutes. Now I can do any of the four that I want effectively. Biking can be a huge short term fix for weight loss and once itis off the running keep it off and the best part is very little chance of injury. Good luck with it! I love the reboot idea.

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Week 283

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Salutations, 50+ers! Very cool to have Mike Rohl join us to lend us some of his professional expertise. Thanks! Reminds me that I really need to get back to doing deliberate strength work; I hate it, but I need it....we all do. As for my week, another sub-par training effort in which I put in a 30-mile week by cobbling together miles where I could. The log reads as such:

Sun: 3.1 (3rd mile @6:50) late evening run

Mon: 5.0--4 short runs to-and-from work w/backpack (~8:00 pace)

Tues: 5.0 (7:29 avg pace) middle 3 a bit faster.

Wed: 3.1 somewhat hard (7:05 avg pace) another late evening run

Thur: off

Fri: 5.2 easyish (7:46 avg pace)

Sat: 9--5 mid-day easy (7:53) + 4 evening Fartlek (7:08 avg pace)

So the chaos continues as we're back to more house work this week; this time it's a room and hallway/stairwell being painted. Sun/Mon/Wed were all desperate attempts to log something for the day. I didn't do a workout per se', just tried to inject a little pace (and variable at that) during various runs. Closest to a real workout was the Fartlek run that included 4 sections of .3 to .5 miles run at around 6:00 pace. I tried to add a 5th one at the end, but my legs weren't having it. ITB/piriformis issues were better some days than others; stretching helped, but I think my whole back is basically out-of-whack (has been for several months, really)...probably could use a good massage.

I'll look forward to reading any reports from the USATF Masters 5k XC race being held today in Tallahassee. I guess I'll preempt racerdb to say I'm sorry you weren't able to go yesterday in the Monumental Half-marathon, the conditions were perfect, but as they say, discretion is the better part of valor.

OK, that's it for me. I had some training buddies PR this weekend both in HM and Marathon distances, so kudos to them. Any racing to report?

All the Best!

That house is gonna kill ya lucKY. I nearly took a tumble down my front terrace(s) raking leaves. Like Chechen-Itza, I'd be in pieces by the time I got to the bottom. So, I'm trying to rationalize why its good to not rake my leaves. I read somewhere its good for the wildlife. That'll work….

My week:

Mon: 1.5 miles trail, medium

Tue: 4 miles elliptical @7:14 pace

Wed: 1.5 miles trail, medium

Thr: 4 miles elliptical @7:19 pace

Fri: 1.5 miles trail, easy

Sat: 4 miles elliptical @7:14 pace

Sun: 1.5 miles trail, medium

My sore right heel has improved and next week I will bump to 2 milers and 4.5 milers respectively. My legs feel strong and light, probably due to the elliptical work. I'm having to fight the urge to go fast on the runs. But its nice to have that urge again!

Going to watch NYC marathon now: Go Ritz and Molly!

rough week.

M 5 miles + 40:00 x-training

Tu 8

W 5 [cut short from 9]

Th 1:12 x-training

F 1:20 x-training

Sa 2 + 48:00 x-training

Su 4 + 56:00 x-training

x-training = stationary bike and elliptical mix

per my massage therapist I "pulled" groin muscle weds. on 4-way hip machine [hip adductor in particular], though I'm saying "strain" to maintain a little optimism. Cut run home short due to limping and pain.

not good with 6 days to go before Richmond marathon. I'll make final decision Tuesday after dress rehearsal (7 miles with 2 at marathon pace), which by coincidence is last chance to get money back on hotel. Frustrating after what I thought was a good, reasonably conservative, training block.

happy NYC marathon day,

Dave

Still recovering from shoulder surgery, but getting there. Wasn't going to change my temporary screen name until I was done with rehab and actually running outside, but settled on a name so better start using it lest I forget. So the new one reflects my (new) habitat among the ponderosa, spruce, and bunch grass.

30 whopping miles over 5 days. Supposed to be on treadmill for another 8-10 days but did sneak out for a 5.5 miler the other day. It was a nice day and just had to get outside. Also did 3:10 on the elliptical as supplementary cross training, for a total of 7:15 for the week.

Getting range of motion back, but a long ways to go with strength, i.e., at 4 lb for biceps curls now

Haven't posted for a couple of weeks. Just been busy and my training is boring anyway. I run 4-6 miles a day with a long run thrown in of 8-10 miles and a little biking and Tai Chi. 2 weeks ago got 4th place in a 10 mile trail run with a time that would have been 1st last year. It's all about who shows up. Today did a Half Marathon rail trail race and unexpectedly pulled off an age group 1st. Nice weather and you run thru a dark wet approximately 3/4 mile rail tunnel. Feet got wet. Very interesting. Next Saturday have an 8 mile hilly trail race. won't need to train very hard this week and like that. Been volunteering at a local beer museum on Tuesdays which is fun. I don't work anymore except around the cabin, yard and woods. Take care. Topcat

Had to laugh, Lucky called me "professional." :)

Solid week to start, a little nervous now though at the end. I am one week from the UST Long Course Championship in Miami. Training was going well but was interrupted 3 weeks ago with a short hospital stay for an obstruction of the small intestine (it cleared) while in the hospital I irritated my calf (the bane of all old guys.) Since then all my check off points were good. Swim TT went well and so did my last long run and long ride. I had one more bike/run to get through.

M 15 mile ride ez recovery, recovery after.

T AM 4000yds 1:22 PM 25 miles bike pretty flat 15.5mph

W 35 mile bike/8 mile run - things can really go awry with bikes. Picked the flattest route I could, an out back 12.5 miles straight south and back with a loop at our park to finish 10 more. The temp was 72 light wind. 21mph at 25 miles and flated 1 mile from the house- called the wife who came and got me. Lost my gels and my water. Switched from the tri bike to the diverge finished the ride still above 20mph. Got to where my guys were waiting and started running ran 8 miles in 64 minutes slowly dying - eating makes a big difference.

Th - swam 4000yd 1:19 (PR) PM Strength training

Friday 25 miles on a cold morning

Saturday 2 miles racewalk after driving home from regionals at Slippery Rock (one all region gal)

Sunday planned 10 miles got to 8 miles while running 7:45 pace and feeling good and bang right calf goes. I have 7 days to get it healed.

I am feeling too lazy to write a detailed description of the week, but I made 42 miles with a couple of good workouts this week. This was my highest mileage week since my knee injury in April. I ran 12 miles yesterday with a 2 mi warm up, 5x mile at 6:45-6:55 with 1/2 mile easy pace recoveries and a 3 mile warm down. The knee feels fine today so maybe it finally is all healed up.

Good Afternoon,

Left foot doing better. Warm weather here in Boise with 60 degree.

Monday: 2 mile walk/ easy

Tuesday: 3.25 mile walk

Wednesday: Mile easy; 5 x 800m tempo @ 3:53, 3:54, 3:55, 3:54, 3:45 / 2:00 rest; mile easy

Thursday: 3.25 mile walk

Friday: 6.26 mile easy

Saturday: race volunteer; window washing

Sunday: Resy

Igy

This week I ran on three consecutive days for the first time since 2004. I incorporated some strides and a couple half-mile repeats to touch on a little speed training, and to get a sense of where I am. A low-key 5K race is tentatively planned for later this month.

Mon: 7.0 miles @ 7:51/mi -- including 8 x 100y strides

Tue: Off

Wed: 7.0 miles @ 7:35/mi -- incorporating 2 x 880y (3:08, 3:04) with half-mile jog between (4:06)

Thu: Off

Fri: 7.0 miles easy @ 8:09/mi

Sat: 4.0 miles tempo @ 7:06/mi

Sun: 10.0 miles progression -- 2.5-mi paces: 7:35, 7:22, 7:12, 7:00

MIke Rohl: Thanks again for the tips. I hadn't considered hill training (flat area here, but have a few gradual climbs available ... so I may try to incorporate some repeats). I'm definitely low tech: no gps, no strava, no heart-rate monitor. Keeping things simple!

Allen1959, re: 'low tech: no gps, no strava, no heart-rate monitor"

I setup my 12yo daughter today with all the tech. Basically handed down my wife's FR225 last week but hadn't yet set her up on the apps.

So I got her the Garmin and Strava apps on her phone and showed all the ins and outs. She seemed pretty into how the dot on the map corresponds to her pace and heart rate. Or, maybe I'm just into it.

She is a seventh grader and got invited to run in the high school's championship (conference and sectional) races on the JV team. It was a big thrill for her and the welcoming and supportive atmosphere created by the team captains is truly impressive. She ran 24:30 in her first race, which is about what I was predicting for her based on her 1 and 1.5 mile middle school races. Then she ripped off a 22:30 on a flat and fast sectional race; and I was stunned. She was largely untrained this year; a couple modest runs a week during the summer. But coming off this experience she and her friend told me they want to run with the high school team full-time next year. Nice to see the interest and excitement. She is probably going to be beating me by next summer.

Older daughter (15) had knee surgery. She has bi-partite patella. The knee cap is in two pieces. It's a genetic disorder that occurs in about 2% of people, most of whom don't have symptoms. The smaller piece was rubbing the tendon and any kind of heavy training caused more and more inflammation. We hoped it would settle down, but after 3 years decided it was time.

The younger sister is hoping to recruit her older sister back onto the cross-country team. The older one ran a 19:30 equivalent 4K back in 8th grade before the knee became too bothersome.

I started hockey this week so was hobbling around with lots of soreness, but managed to get in 4 easy runs.

Reboot, congrats on your daughter's racing. And I'm wishing a speedy surgery recovery for your older daughter. One of my two sons took an interest in running ... was undefeated in the 1500 in middle school competition, and did well as a ninth grader, also. Then he had a growth spurt, and was plagued with injuries through the rest of high school.

My week:

Monday: 1.5 hrs on bike trainer

Tuesday: 10 miles at 8:50 pace

Weds: 10 miles at 9:10 pace

Thurs: 1.5 hrs on bike trainer

Fri: 10 miles at 8:50 pace, felt terrific.

Sat: 40 mins on bike trainer

Also lifted at the gym for about 30 min on five of those six days.

Sunday: Half-marathon race. Perfect conditions, 50's with light overcast. Exchanged pleasantries before the start with the person I expected to be my age-group competition, and tried to race her. Found I'm no longer in shape to do that, and had to back off after 1 mile. I still had thoughts of reeling her back in around the 8-mile point, but then we hit the one hill on the course and I couldn't hang on to her. Still felt OK at 11 miles and then the calf cramps started. I actually had to stop for a moment right under the 13 mile sign to massage my calf and limped in at 1:46:25, 24 seconds faster than my half-marathon 3 weeks ago. I only got third in F50-59, but was seventh overall woman!

I still feel I could get back to near 1:40 if I could only train with reasonable frequency and intensity. As it is, my Achilles tendon blows up every time I do a hard effort. I don't know when I'll be able to run again, and until then, it's back to the bike trainer.

Another (31st) 4 Peaks race done and dusted.

Sat.29th. 1st stage Mystic Hill.

A significant course change due to logging activity made for a much steeper more technical day. 10 km 1050 metres of elevation gain. 1 hr 54 m. OK, not brilliant but OK.

Sun. 30th. Stage 2. Mt Feathertop, shortened due to deep snow cover around the summit. We would be finishing at Federation Hut, we have had to finish here a number of times over the years.

A straightforward 10 km 1260 metre climb. Goal 1.35 to 1.40 I managed 1h 38 m. Again OK but I dropped off a bit over the last km.

Mon. 31st. Stage 3. Mt Hotham. 15 km 1680 metre elevation gain. Goal 2.25 to 2.32. I finished in 2 h 30m. I was on target for a 2.27 but dropped away late. I will give myself a bit of leeway though the trail had quite thick snow patches and temps were minus 5 C.

.

Tue. 1st. Stage 4. Mt Buffalo. 10 kms 1180 metres of elevation gain.

Goal 1.35 to 1.40. After a sluggish start I worked through the 2d half pretty well to finish in 1 h 37 m.

A quit rest of the week.