Agreed…how is Niwot placed behind CBA when they beat them last year with a team that had no seniors? SW will sweep 1-2-3 and nobody will realize how good they are until NXN because the competition is so deep in their region.
Agreed…how is Niwot placed behind CBA when they beat them last year with a team that had no seniors? SW will sweep 1-2-3 and nobody will realize how good they are until NXN because the competition is so deep in their region.
CBA kids improved a lot from xc there track times were very good
Agreed…how is Niwot placed behind CBA when they beat them last year with a team that had no seniors? SW will sweep 1-2-3 and nobody will realize how good they are until NXN because the competition is so deep in their region.
CBA kids improved a lot from xc there track times were very good
I just don’t see how cba will be able to beat Niwot. They can have the ranking but if they believe it, they are in a big surprise on just how big the gap is between them and Niwot and Herriman come nxn
So did the Niwot kids, but they race at around 5500’ altitude all season, so it may not be as obvious. Their top two from NXN never raced the 3200 (but ran very fast in the 1600 finishing 1-2 at state and beating strong nationally ranked runners).
I personally would put Niwot ahead of CBA, but I can absolutely see why CBA could be ranked ahead:
5 sub 4:20, 6 sub 9:25, 10 sub 10.
It's crazy to think that we live in an era where having six guys under 9:25 for 3200m doesn't automatically rank you preseason #1 without another thought.
I personally would put Niwot ahead of CBA, but I can absolutely see why CBA could be ranked ahead:
5 sub 4:20, 6 sub 9:25, 10 sub 10.
It's crazy to think that we live in an era where having six guys under 9:25 for 3200m doesn't automatically rank you preseason #1 without another thought.
You are putting too much thought into track times.
the problem is that if CBA graduated nobody last season (5 or 4 of their top 7), they would still lose to Niwot the following season (and problem by an even greater margin than in 2023). So for them to be above Niwot is kind of out there
I personally would put Niwot ahead of CBA, but I can absolutely see why CBA could be ranked ahead:
5 sub 4:20, 6 sub 9:25, 10 sub 10.
It's crazy to think that we live in an era where having six guys under 9:25 for 3200m doesn't automatically rank you preseason #1 without another thought.
You are putting too much thought into track times.
the problem is that if CBA graduated nobody last season (5 or 4 of their top 7), they would still lose to Niwot the following season (and problem by an even greater margin than in 2023). So for them to be above Niwot is kind of out there
I personally would put Niwot ahead of CBA, but I can absolutely see why CBA could be ranked ahead:
5 sub 4:20, 6 sub 9:25, 10 sub 10.
It's crazy to think that we live in an era where having six guys under 9:25 for 3200m doesn't automatically rank you preseason #1 without another thought.
You are putting too much thought into track times.
the problem is that if CBA graduated nobody last season (5 or 4 of their top 7), they would still lose to Niwot the following season (and problem by an even greater margin than in 2023). So for them to be above Niwot is kind of out there
For the record, they beat CBA by 5 at NXN in one race. CBA's #1, a guy that ran 4:08 and 8:43, had covid that week and was their #2. They also had a soph race 9:10/4:15 that wasn't on their varsity in the fall. The 9:10 gets a humidity conversion to 9:00 or so.
Agreed…how is Niwot placed behind CBA when they beat them last year with a team that had no seniors? SW will sweep 1-2-3 and nobody will realize how good they are until NXN because the competition is so deep in their region.
CBA kids improved a lot from xc there track times were very good
They're track times always look better. Niwot on the other hand usually has less impressive track times. If you look at altitude conversions suddenly the times are very similar and Niwot always has better cross performances then they do in track
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
You are putting too much thought into track times.
the problem is that if CBA graduated nobody last season (5 or 4 of their top 7), they would still lose to Niwot the following season (and problem by an even greater margin than in 2023). So for them to be above Niwot is kind of out there
For the record, they beat CBA by 5 at NXN in one race. CBA's #1, a guy that ran 4:08 and 8:43, had covid that week and was their #2. They also had a soph race 9:10/4:15 that wasn't on their varsity in the fall. The 9:10 gets a humidity conversion to 9:00 or so.
I just dont see a way they will win. Niwot has Culpepper and Sullivan as 2 solid low scorers. Sullivan is a frosh so nice jump next year. They have 12 under 16 who all return who can have great summers. Plus all their varsity have run at NXN before so they are less likely to crack under pressure at these high profile meets.
I personally would put Niwot ahead of CBA, but I can absolutely see why CBA could be ranked ahead:
5 sub 4:20, 6 sub 9:25, 10 sub 10.
It's crazy to think that we live in an era where having six guys under 9:25 for 3200m doesn't automatically rank you preseason #1 without another thought.
When accounting for altitude, the SW teams are stronger than CBA. Not just in XC, but also track times.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
When you account for heat/humidity, many east coast teams, especially the southeast crew, deserve some conversion. A race at 80+ degrees with a 60+ dew point is tougher than you think. Altitude athletes acclimate to altitude 365 days a year. Humidity and heat is a bit different and there is less time for adjustment. I have no idea how Belen and other Florida kids run so fast down there.
All these teams are good and have a shot to win. The week off after NXR may help CBA as Melyan says.
You are putting too much thought into track times.
the problem is that if CBA graduated nobody last season (5 or 4 of their top 7), they would still lose to Niwot the following season (and problem by an even greater margin than in 2023). So for them to be above Niwot is kind of out there
For the record, they beat CBA by 5 at NXN in one race. CBA's #1, a guy that ran 4:08 and 8:43, had covid that week and was their #2. They also had a soph race 9:10/4:15 that wasn't on their varsity in the fall. The 9:10 gets a humidity conversion to 9:00 or so.
They also have an incoming senior who ran a 4:15 / 9:14 3200. He ran a few meets with their top 7 during fall 2022 too.
Altitude has a more significant impact on 3200 meter times compared to humidity due to the reduced oxygen availability at higher elevations. This reduction leads to a decrease in VO2 max, which directly impairs aerobic performance. Studies have consistently shown that running performance can degrade by approximately 1-2% per 1000 feet (300 meters) of elevation gain, leading to slower race times.
In contrast, while high humidity can increase body temperature and dehydration risk, its impact is less quantifiable and more variable, depending on factors like temperature and individual acclimatization.
This data below comparing 3200 meter times of athletes at the RunningLane track meet in humid Alabama this year compared to their times a week prior at the Colorado State meet at an elevation of over 5000 feet supports this. These athletes showed significant improvement in their times when racing at sea level (even in humidity) compared to high altitude:
| Athlete | RunningLane Time | Colorado State Meet Time | |------------------|--------------------|---------------------------| | Benji Anderson | 8:52 | 9:15 | | Oliver Horton | 8:53 | 9:12 | | Aiden Le Roux | 8:55 | 9:12 | | Brogan Collins | 8:59 | 9:14 | | Jacob Schwarting| 9:00 | 9:30 | | Boston Potts | 9:04. | 9:29 | | Porter Warren | 9:05 | 9:24 |
This consistent improvement highlights how the reduced oxygen availability at high altitude negatively affects performance more than humidity. The quantifiable and consistent performance improvements at sea level underscore that altitude is a bigger factor.
Altitude has a more significant impact on 3200 meter times compared to humidity due to the reduced oxygen availability at higher elevations. This reduction leads to a decrease in VO2 max, which directly impairs aerobic performance. Studies have consistently shown that running performance can degrade by approximately 1-2% per 1000 feet (300 meters) of elevation gain, leading to slower race times.
In contrast, while high humidity can increase body temperature and dehydration risk, its impact is less quantifiable and more variable, depending on factors like temperature and individual acclimatization.
This data below comparing 3200 meter times of athletes at the RunningLane track meet in humid Alabama this year compared to their times a week prior at the Colorado State meet at an elevation of over 5000 feet supports this. These athletes showed significant improvement in their times when racing at sea level (even in humidity) compared to high altitude:
| Athlete | RunningLane Time | Colorado State Meet Time | |------------------|--------------------|---------------------------| | Benji Anderson | 8:52 | 9:15 | | Oliver Horton | 8:53 | 9:12 | | Aiden Le Roux | 8:55 | 9:12 | | Brogan Collins | 8:59 | 9:14 | | Jacob Schwarting| 9:00 | 9:30 | | Boston Potts | 9:04. | 9:29 | | Porter Warren | 9:05 | 9:24 |
This consistent improvement highlights how the reduced oxygen availability at high altitude negatively affects performance more than humidity. The quantifiable and consistent performance improvements at sea level underscore that altitude is a bigger factor.
It was just over 70 with a decently low dew point in the 50s on May 24th in Huntsville. It was also at night so no sun. That doesn't not count as hot and humid. According to the follow study, certain levels of heat and humidity can push performances 3-14 percent slower.
I'm not at all saying that altitude does not affect performance. I'm simply saying that heat and humidity also affect performance. It varies just like different altitude and different athletes at altitude.
Altitude has a more significant impact on 3200 meter times compared to humidity due to the reduced oxygen availability at higher elevations. This reduction leads to a decrease in VO2 max, which directly impairs aerobic performance. Studies have consistently shown that running performance can degrade by approximately 1-2% per 1000 feet (300 meters) of elevation gain, leading to slower race times.
In contrast, while high humidity can increase body temperature and dehydration risk, its impact is less quantifiable and more variable, depending on factors like temperature and individual acclimatization.
This data below comparing 3200 meter times of athletes at the RunningLane track meet in humid Alabama this year compared to their times a week prior at the Colorado State meet at an elevation of over 5000 feet supports this. These athletes showed significant improvement in their times when racing at sea level (even in humidity) compared to high altitude:
| Athlete | RunningLane Time | Colorado State Meet Time | |------------------|--------------------|---------------------------| | Benji Anderson | 8:52 | 9:15 | | Oliver Horton | 8:53 | 9:12 | | Aiden Le Roux | 8:55 | 9:12 | | Brogan Collins | 8:59 | 9:14 | | Jacob Schwarting| 9:00 | 9:30 | | Boston Potts | 9:04. | 9:29 | | Porter Warren | 9:05 | 9:24 |
This consistent improvement highlights how the reduced oxygen availability at high altitude negatively affects performance more than humidity. The quantifiable and consistent performance improvements at sea level underscore that altitude is a bigger factor.
It was just over 70 with a decently low dew point in the 50s on May 24th in Huntsville. It was also at night so no sun. That doesn't not count as hot and humid. According to the follow study, certain levels of heat and humidity can push performances 3-14 percent slower.
I'm not at all saying that altitude does not affect performance. I'm simply saying that heat and humidity also affect performance. It varies just like different altitude and different athletes at altitude.
This is false. The evening temperature was 80 degrees with a dew point over 70.
you got the dew point wrong for runninglane. It was more humid than that.
Also this Article is primary focused on marathon runners. Heat and humidity has less effect the shorter the distance. Want to guess how hot and humid it was when Simeon Birnbaum, Rocky Hansen, Jackson Heidesch broke 4 at Hoka festival of miles in 2023?