Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

How would you guys approach this method if you are training 12 hours per week in a duathlon approach (cycling + running).

Currently my schedule looks like this:

Mon: Off/Rest day
Tue: AM: 4x10 minutes PM: Bike 2 Hours in Z2 @60% HRR
Wed: Bike 2 Hours in Z2 @60% HRR
Thu: AM: Bike 1 hour in Z2 @60%HRR - PM: 1 hour run @subLT1 (up to 80%maxHR)
Fri: 90-120 minutes in Z2 @60%HRR
Sat: AM: 10x4 minutes PM: Bike 90-120 minutes in Z2 @60%HRR
Sun: 3 hours in z2 @60%HRR

Normally this approach requires 3 days of subT per week, but I might be a bit afraid that it would cause too much training strain. Should I bump the workouts to 45-50 minutes in SubT per workout instead to reach somewhat of the same stimuli with maybe a lower intensity to ensure you are not cooking? eg. like a ceiling of 87% max HR.

I have found out that Sirpocs recommendation with HR actually matches Steven Seilers ''Zone1'' recommendation pretty well

Hi from Germany!
I’ve been following a 3x Sub-LT + 4x easy run weekly
structure for the past six weeks. I think I’m slightly fast-twitch
dominant. The first few weeks went okay, but now I’m feeling extremely
fatigued, constantly tired, and in a bad mood.
I suspect part of the problem might be that I haven’t
been fueling with carbs during my workouts – I usually run early in the
morning in a fasted state.
I’m now unsure whether I should stick with this approach
and hope my body adjusts, or if I need to make a change considering my
likely fast-twitch profile.
One idea I had: shifting to shorter intervals (e.g., 8x1k or 20x400m) and one workout 3x3k @ Marathon pace.
Do you have any tips or insights? Any experiences from other fast-twitch-dominant runners who tend to burn out more quickly?
Thanks!

Eat carbs and don’t do it fasted.

You shouldn't feel extremely fatigued, not even during a workout. Definitely change your fueling strategy, but you should also change the workouts. You may have started with a training load that was much higher then you were doing before and you weren't ready for it.

What do you mean by "shifting to shorter intervals"? Both the workouts you mention are basic NSA options. What workouts have you been doing instead?

But I think there's nothing wrong with backing off the volume and pace for a while until you adjust to the training structure. Don't force the short rests intervals if you need more. Running a workout at a slower pace than called for won't cause long-term problems, but running too fast will.

If you're fatigued then you may well be running easy runs or subT too fast. What was your mileage prior to starting this and what is it now?

Hi from the magic J.S coach! I prominenta you should suit much betyer to my the Swedish Dancan method. Mostly one maxVO2 interval 12- 20 x 400m at 5 k pace and one LT2 interval at about half marathon pace to a total of 8- 12 km every week . The easy runs 40-80 min at mostly 70-75 % of maxheartrate every week . If you want daily expert help with your training just feel free to get in contact with me . Coach J.S 🇸🇪

Thank you all for your feedback! Previously, I was running 100–120 km (62–75 miles) per week with one interval session at 10K race pace (e.g. 12x400; 15x1'/1') and one tempo run of 10–16 km (6–10 miles) at marathon pace.
Since switching to the Norwegian Singles Method (NSM), my weekly mileage dropped to 90–100 km (56–62 miles), with workouts like 8x1k, 2x2k, and 3x3k at threshold pace. My easy runs have been very slow, at about 65% of max heart rate.
One mistake I made: I probably ran the 4x2k intervals at half marathon pace too fast, possibly too close to my LT2 (lactate threshold).
That's why I’m thinking of doing the longer intervals at marathon pace
only, and keeping the shorter intervals (like 1k reps or 400s) at
sub-threshold.
Some other runners have reported that with this method, they feel fresher than ever before—but for me, it’s been the opposite so far. Maybe because I was too close to LT2 during the 2k intervals and didn't take in enough carbs afterwards.
I switched to NSM because I’ve been stuck at 18 minutes for the 5K for a long time. I can run intervals really fast in training, but in races I’m running out of gas too quickly.
If anyone has similar experience with NSM or advice on pacing these workouts and fueling strategies, I’d appreciate your input!

Lol

I already had a feeling this is a bot, what with the weird "explanations" of acronyms in parentheses and all. But yeah, you guys are talking to an LLM.

This thread a few months back even fell to as far as page 3!

Could be translating to English with an LLM—but you never know.

Tue: I would change PM with AM session and do only 3x10min of running. If not changeable only 3x10min in the morning (but it depends on pace/intensity in the context of this thread)

Thu: do you know your LT1? because 60%HRR is also subLT1 (sidemark). I would run easy here and do a quality bike session instead, to have in total 2 run, 1 bike quality session/week.

Sat: also here 7-8 x 4min running, seems sufficient. Also swapping AM with PM session

Best of luck, for your duathlon.

I don't get this whole fascination with doing workouts fasted. These are not fat-metabolizing workouts. Geez people...give your body some fuel. There's nothing wrong with it. Set yourself up for the most success in these workouts. Carbs are not the bad guy here.

Yeah I don't get it either. I would love to fuel my workouts properly. I think for most of us of hobby joggers, it’s more out of obligation than choice. I have to be out the door by 6 a.m. or I’m late for work. That means no time to eat before running, unless I want to sacrifice sleep.

I tried running at night after putting the kids to bed, but those were honestly some of the worst runs of my life. Just absolutely miserable to be out there pounding the pavement after a full day of work and family stuff.

If anyone knows of something super easy to digest that the body can actually use in <10 minutes, I’m all ears. I’m experimenting with juice, but too much and I just get bloated. Gels actually work well, but with 3 workouts a week, that gets pricey fast.

I smash a 500ml energy drink when I get up, running the workout about 30 mins later. Perfect timing, plenty of caffeine and sugar. Works for me.

When I have carbs before a workout, I find that I feel worse than when I run fasted. I'm guessing it's probably due to the insulin response. My workouts are never longer than 90 minutes, which includes warm-up and cool-down, so I should have enough glycogen in the muscles to power the workout without fading.

When I do 2+ hour long runs, I make sure to top off my carbs about 2-2.5 hours before I start the run to get past the insulin spike. Then I sip on the gels during the run rather than consume the whole thing, again to prevent/minimize an insulin response.

I've found with this approach, I feel better during my runs and have an easier time hitting my targets than if I consume carbs right beforehand.

exponential downvote incoming

been too long, lol

Id swap out that Fri Z2 bike for an easy day of running (60-75 minutes), keeping it a single workout day

This is a lot of quality, 9 in 6 will be pretty huge (2 hrs a day avg), best of luck on your Du!

A few additional thoughts:

Sub-T is not a pace. You maintain a sub-threshold state with a combination of pace, rest interval and total workout volume. You can go faster for shorter intervals, and also take shorter rests.

The workout intensity is supposed to be moderate, 6/10 max. If you feel like a workout has gotten hard, stop. There's always next week, when you can pace it more conservatively, or maybe the weather will be better.

It is sirpoc-certified to take 1 minute rests for 1K reps, 1:30 rests for 1600 reps, and 2 minute breaks for 3K reps. And if you need more, take it this week/month, and get closer to the standard next week/month.

My fitness is similar to yours. I find my 3K reps are often somewhere between MP and HMP.

Try running workouts somewhat progressively, starting at MP/HMP and feeling your way to faster paces. This is also sirpoc-certified (source: stalking his workouts on Strava).

Exercise/exertion blunts insulin secretion, so the "spike" is a bit overblown. I don't usually take in a huge amount of carbs, but enough to feel adequately fueled throughout and it also helps with recovery in that you don't need to replenish as much or right away post-workout. Also, carb utilization is increased in warmer weather so, as a Houston runner, I have this to consider as well. Ultimately, we do what we need to that is specific for us as individuals.