Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

That sounds similar to my Scotch Doubles training, you don't get very fast but you also don't care

Has anyone else had Garmin and Runalyze race/V02 max predictions seemingly stagnate or get slower?

I've been following this method for about 8 weeks and am getting fitter as shown in HR, effort levels and paces, also I use Intervals.icu and fitness is going up 2 or 3 points a week with form around -8.

Does the Runalyze and Garmin algorithm need faster work outs to guage your predictions correctly?

I've a couple of races up coming and will be interesting to see the results and how they compare to the predictions

Runalyze handles interval workouts poorly. It doesn't separate the fast reps from the 1 minute rest/recovery. So it sees a relatively faster overall run, but with a much higher heart rate than expected. This combo makes it downshift the estimated VO2 max.

Because NSA has 3 days of these hard-to-analyze intervals, and then slower-than-normal easy runs, Runalyze's VO2 max algo thinks you're getting slower.

Max HR at 192 seems a bit aggressive, also not much variation between easy run length and long run length. Would try to shorten easy runs and add those minutes to the long run, if time allows for your schedule.

Very similar experience here. Last "race" was 7 weeks ago and it now predicts I have lost about 10 seconds in a predicted 5K, but says VO2 Max has gone up 1, despite faster paces at the same or lower HR. I'm new to interval.icu but it shows fitness has increased by 12, form 12 points lower, and fatigued unchanged.

Ignore what ICU calls "fitness"..

The Performance Manager approach that I developed entails calculating chronic training load (CTL), acute training load (ATL), and their differences (i.e., training stress balance, or TSB)m People pinning different labels on things simply demonstrate that 1) they don't understand the approach and its limitations or 2) they do understand, but have chosen to prioritize downloads/sales/profits over reality .

I’m one of the top HS 800 guys in the country and have decent XC range (15:10-15:30 XC5K) I want to take my XC to the next level. Done an official test and started threshold w a meter myself and my LT2 pace is only 6:15. Will doing the Norwegian method this summer and fall help my XC or am I wasting my time as a fast-twitch-based distance runner?

Coggan I really want to like you but posts like this are so unhelpful. You just parachute into the conversation, crap on something in a grammatically incorrect way that makes it hard to parse the post, and then offer no solutions / fixes. I take it from this post that you don’t like intervals.icu fitness? But no explanation of why or where we might find “performance manager” or how to use it if we did. Also what is the weird run on segue re: people pinning labels on things? Like, what?

With a lactate test you should be good to go, and I think this is great base-building for XC, but keep in mind that these workouts are not done “at” one LT pace, but various paces below that (but above LT1) based on how long the reps are. So the ten-minute reps are slower, the three-minute reps are faster. It may take some experimenting. I would start conservatively.

At least in terms of the accurate measurement issue, I think this could work for someone who tends to eat similarly each day, since all you would need to do is remove about 50 kcal worth of something you regularly eat that is readily identifiable. I tend to eat yogurt with nuts on it as dessert, so for me all I'm changing is getting rid of the nuts. Might also switch from full fat yogurt to zero fat.

The motivation is another thing, but I think anyone who has the patience to wait for fitness to improve over multiple months can probably do the same thing with weight loss.

Look at the first couple of pages of the thread - a good mix is something like 10x3, 6x5, 3x10. 30s rest for 1-2min reps, 60s for the rest. Vary pace by rep length (see the Hard2Find or Lactrace calculators) as you're aiming for a level of lactate over the reps.

If you're slow twitch, do the reps as the calculators say. If you're fast twitch, do them a touch slower and slow jog the rests.

Also, I would do more sub-T work outdoors. You know what pace and effort keeps you at 86% HR on the mill now, no need to stick to it forever, unless you prefer it.

This happened to me too.. gained 4kg in 4 months..fitter but much heavier so race performance is basically the same. Was shoked when I weighed in. The sessions make me so hungry. Maybe because it's so glycolitic and I'm not just racking up hours as many hours at fat max anymore which didn't have the same appetite bump.

What, you're not capable of googling for information?

"Fitness" in Intervals.icu is the same thing as CTL. They can't call it that because TrainingPeaks trademarked it. It's pretty clearly stated in Intervals.icu.

I expect he’ll appreciate your greater insight about that.

So do you believe ICU, TP, or the US government?

I can't find any evidence that chronic training load is a legally registered trademark.

I am trying to find some early posts in this thread by sirpoc and (maybe) hard2find or other users about theoretically doing MP every day of the week, or 5 days a week. Anyone have those bookmarked by chance?

He wasn’t able to google that information, turns out.

I’m curious what posters on here feel like when running the correct paces. Since my workouts are done on the treadmill, and it’s too warm to run an accurate time trial where I live, and I don’t have up to date race results or an up to date max heart rate, I’m relying on feel more than would be optimal. Does the feeling match with how Jack Daniel’s describes (continuous) running at marathon pace: fast but not hard enough where you hope that it ends anytime soon? Lyiard’s “pleasantly tired”? How about respiration rate? Should my breathing be close to the rate during easy running? Or should it be significantly quickened?