Rojo, I think you guys blew it by not highlighting what Joanie's done over the last 10 years or so, especially at Boston. She's dominated her age group, set age group World and American records, age graded over 100%, at 50 ran in the Marathon Trials, and ran something like 2:47 in Chicago at 53 years old! And even now, in her 60s, she's still flirting with sub 3. Not likely Jenny will approach the breadth of Joanie's career.
WTF: NCAA titles?!?!!? Who gives a crap? That has nothing to do with how great a runner you are. No one gives a crap who is the best JV runners. Sure JV runners go on to make varsity in many cases, but its still JV. Why don't we go back to HS as well?
Look Jenny Simpson vs Joan Benoit is close. Reasonable people can disagree. Joan Benoit was the best marathoner in the world for women for several years. Jenny Simpson has one major win. One. And it was a shock. She has many great placing, but basically she was a solid runner who could place (or win with a lot of luck).
Joan had a dominating Olympic title. She had a World record. She was, hands down, the best marathoner for a few years.
So quantity over quality. Fine, that's your choice, but get that JV stuff out of here. NCAA, good gosh!!
People voting for Simpson have lost their minds.
Jenny has never held the AR for the 1500 and two contemporaries have better PBs.
Joanie held the AR in the Marathon for 18 years. Almost 35 years later, only one active U.S. woman (Jordan Hasay) has a better PB than her.
Jenny is a great athlete, but not even in the same room as Joan! Joan also never judged her contemporaries-just a class act.
Nike smear team out in full force.
Joan Benoit in her prime ran at a time when there were far fewer top notch women distance runners.
You - and another poster - refer to Joan Benoit Samuelson as JBS. Not to be confused, of course, with another JBS: Jenny Barringer Simpson. :)
Simpson has had a longer career, has more event versatility, faced better competition, has better times, and has a nice medal haul to boot.
Come on!
george oscar bluth wrote:
Simpson has had a longer career, has more event versatility, faced better competition, has better times, and has a nice medal haul to boot.
Come on!
What has this to do with my pointing out that both women have EXACTLY the same initials. So when you refer to someone as JBS it takes a moment to figure out which JBS you are referring to. I made ZERO argument about which is more deserving of support.
Should I then say, as you did, Come on!
Simpson - AR steeple and 2 mile, 1 gold WC, 1 bronze Olympics, + other non-oly medals
Benoit - WR marathon twice, AR marathon for 18 years, 1 gold Olympics, + wins at Boston twice and Chicago
There is a reason Joan's 2:21 marathon AR held for 18 years. It was a very strong record.
WR>AR
Olympic Gold>WC Gold
ventolin^5 wrote:
Gangnam Style wrote:
I don't find it shocking at all. Jenny has one of the greatest American medal hauls and has competed in a vastly, nearly incomparably, superior era.
The problem I've run into is what the word "greatest" should mean. Does it take into account how the public looked at and idolized (or didn't) the athletes? That's why these are great debates -- different people value different things, i.e. times vs. medals vs. popular influence vs. contemporary success.
I'm more surprised Shorter and Ryun are winning by as much as they are. I thought Centrowitz should have beaten Ryun and just assumed Lagat would win this round.
Shorter and Rupp I think is a great matchup -- voted for Shorter, but not because I don't like Rupp/NOP. I figure he should actually be a double gold medalist. That's tough to beat, even with better times and similar results in a better era.
Idiot
What about Ryun ~ 1'39"/3'24"/3'41"[\b] don't you understand?
Welcome back!!
Ok, there is better competition today. But how many women run under 2:21 now? How many American women run away from their competition the way Joan did in 84?
To me influence is also very important which is why Joan is greater.
SouthernSun wrote:
george oscar bluth wrote:
Simpson has had a longer career, has more event versatility, faced better competition, has better times, and has a nice medal haul to boot.
Come on!
What has this to do with my pointing out that both women have EXACTLY the same initials. So when you refer to someone as JBS it takes a moment to figure out which JBS you are referring to. I made ZERO argument about which is more deserving of support.
Should I then say, as you did, Come on!
I replied to your post because it was the last one. I didn’t quote it as my post wasn’t directed at the words you wrote. This is fairly common practice on messageboards.
Joanie is really truely nice, Jenny is fake nice, just for the camera's.
Have met them both
Jenny is one of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. Take your lies elsewhere.
This.
Joanie is not clear of suspicion. AW member, look at her progression in shorter races. Nothing says 2:21. Can you imagine this scenario playing out in 2019. She has surgery, can’t train at 100%, racing against East Germans/known drug cheats AND she still wins gold?
Come on Rojo/Wejo, you’re smarter than this. You’re letting your bias show. Again.
donairs wrote:
Simpson - AR steeple and 2 mile, 1 gold WC, 1 bronze Olympics, + other non-oly medals
Benoit - WR marathon twice, AR marathon for 18 years, 1 gold Olympics, + wins at Boston twice and Chicago
There is a reason Joan's 2:21 marathon AR held for 18 years. It was a very strong record.
WR>AR
Olympic Gold>WC Gold
There it is. Obvious winner. Simpson is one of the greatest middle distance runners America has seen, but that's it. Samuelson is one of the greatest female marathoners the world has seen. It is not close. Sure on the world stage the best women are running faster now but her times are still world class and far above what american women today are achieving. She would have been the runaway favorite to win the Olympic trials this year in modern gear and even in old gear would have made the team. Also why are NCAA titles getting mentioned? Who gives a damn about NCAA titles? Two Boston wins, Chicago WR, and Olympic gold. That's far better than getting ten podiums with one win. Her winning time at the Olympics is good enough to win in most Olympic years even still unlike now where even the best american women are not a factor.
It's frustrating that runners of old didn't have the same kind of competition possibilities that modern runners have; it would make their resumes look more impressive. Benoit, Rodgers, Shorter. There is very little mention of the road races they may have competed in; races like Bolder Boulder, Quad Cities or Lilac Bloomsday. I remember that Shorter and Rodgers agreed to tie on one race. Anyway, their resumes are longer than what is mentioned.
I'm saddened that I've met women runners who didn't know about Joan Benoit. Shocking. I think the images of her running alone on the L.A. freeway and her entrance into the Coliseum are a couple of the greatest in USA athletics history.
I didn't find a video of her Olympic win, so I uploaded mine. I think this should be required watching for anyone running competitively in the U,S, She boldly stole the gold medal early in the race and ran, what I think, is the greatest marathon of any American runner ever- male or female. That is what makes her the GOAT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4N5cgcrDY&feature=youtu.be
Go to 5:08 and watch her become a coward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=8tUUcYraRkw&feature=emb_title
Means nothing you shill.