Breaking: 2017 London Marathon Champ Daniel Wanjiru Busted!!!

This idea should be a total inequity, since clean Kenyan and Ethiopian exist, and are able to run at the top of the world.

I understand the widespread skepticism about Kenyan runners, because many of them used doping (for their will, or for mistake, the final result is the same).

However, I well know the level of sacrifice many about the best Kenyans reach, Always far from their families, running 2-3 times per day, sometimes at levels of pain and sufference higher than in the competition, and they do this in clean way.

We can't penalize strong athletes, CLEAN, because some other strong athlete, doped, can win some competition. And, also, we can penalize strong athletes, CLEAN, because European, American, Australian, Canadian, New Zelander, Japanese runner (slower than them) lose the motivation looking at so many athletes running 2:05.

We showed possible, for European too, running in 2:05:47 using advanced training in altitude, and running that time Sondre Moen beated Olympic Champions like Stephen Kiprotich and Kenyan stars like Karoki, so WE CAN.

There is a very simple system for controlling the situation : the organizers need to pay the prizes only after 1 year, and only 50% of the final prize, opening a bank account where can put the other 50% of the prize, to give to the athlete only after 3 years, when already there is the control about the Biological Passport.

In alternance, they can give the total amount after 6 months to the management, that in this case has to be responsible for the athlete, and, if in the future the athlete is doped, the management has to reimburse all the money to the organizers, that need to update all the other clean athletes, finishing behind the doped runner.

Your solution is, if there is one rotten apple in one big basket of apples, to throw out all the apples, when 95% are still good. And I don't think this can be a good solution, because we Always have to protect the rights of clean persons.

rekrunner wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

More to the point: since he never broke 59 or 2:05, he neither reaches El K's nor rek's threshold to count as an elite runner. Thus nothing to see here according to the trolls, just wait and see.

Thanks for the lie, the name calling, and the opportunity to respond.

My "threshold" for measuring quality post-1990 performances was 2:07:11.

No lie. I didn't mean your post-1990 threshold; I was referring to your cute habit of belittling doped performances if they weren't the fastest ever, e.g. by saying that 70 athletes were faster.

Remember when you were trying to find the fastest doped marathon time that we know of (no, not 2:15, since you prefer to look at men only)? Back then it was Kiptum's, now Kipsang's.

No name calling either - I know you are proud of your successful albeit one-trick-pony trolling act here for years. Congrats.

Finally, you are welcome.

Renato Canova wrote:

Your solution is, if there is one rotten apple in one big basket of apples, to throw out all the apples, when 95% are still good. And I don't think this can be a good solution, because we Always have to protect the rights of clean persons.

The problems with that are:

1) We know that (likely more than) 44% are cheats in athletics, worldwide.

2) It appears Kenyans are worse cheats than many others.

Nevertheless, I agree that one (still) can't and shouldn't ban Kenya at this time. I'd support other measures, like banning teams with more than one or two caught dopers or teams with a cheating coach.

Renato Canova wrote:

There is a very simple system for controlling the situation : the organizers need to pay the prizes only after 1 year, and only 50% of the final prize, opening a bank account where can put the other 50% of the prize, to give to the athlete only after 3 years, when already there is the control about the Biological Passport.

I think the only reasonable situation if the sport is going to regain any credibility is to ban Kenya (and less realistically, Ethiopia, given their complete lack of testing). They would have to work on a pathway to a return to the sport in time, but it'll be difficult.

Also, Italian support staff need to go.

Real shame for the small minority of Kenyan elites and Italian coaches/doctors/agents that are genuinely clean.

Your suggestion of how to pay the prize money just got me think; "Is he kidding with us?" ))

You have to come up with something else mr Canova. That one was far from being realistic.You can't expect many times poor Africans to wait that long for the money like that, And the managers could hardly imagine to wait that long for their percentages.If you are a runner or coach or manager paid by Qatar, Bahrain etc ,with some millions on their bank account, then of course it's easy to propose such a suggestion.Think again and think right.

lockdown conscience wrote:

Your suggestion of how to pay the prize money just got me think; "Is he kidding with us?" ))

You have to come up with something else mr Canova. That one was far from being realistic.You can't expect many times poor Africans to wait that long for the money like that, And the managers could hardly imagine to wait that long for their percentages.If you are a runner or coach or manager paid by Qatar, Bahrain etc ,with some millions on their bank account, then of course it's easy to propose such a suggestion.Think again and think right.

We're not looking for a solution that benefits the poor Kenyan cheats and the rich European grifters.

We're looking a solution that stops the cheating.

The major problem with banning Kenya though, which is what it must be getting close to, is that the Italians would just facilitate a move for their charges to gulf states, Turkey or Azerbaijan and let them cheat over there instead.

That said, get them banned too.

trollism wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

There is a very simple system for controlling the situation : the organizers need to pay the prizes only after 1 year, and only 50% of the final prize, opening a bank account where can put the other 50% of the prize, to give to the athlete only after 3 years, when already there is the control about the Biological Passport.

I think the only reasonable situation if the sport is going to regain any credibility is to ban Kenya (and less realistically, Ethiopia, given their complete lack of testing). They would have to work on a pathway to a return to the sport in time, but it'll be difficult.

Also, Italian support staff need to go.

Real shame for the small minority of Kenyan elites and Italian coaches/doctors/agents that are genuinely clean.

I think you are too radical in your thoughts here. We have seen now last years that this with biological passport and so on has increased the chance to find the cheaters, even in Ethiopia.What one might want is a tougher examination of management's possible involvement in a found doping case.

who is the coach of Wanjiru????

Thank you for the reply Renato. The training camps you coach are no doubt relentless and they take everything and in return give those athletes all their talent.

The Africans may have the gene, and years of inherent biology to perform well but the curiosity of being relevant in championship style races are what makes the Wanders, Robertson's, Moens, and Rupps a factor. The legendary Stefano Baldini ? the 04' Athens Olympic Marathon, running 2:40s in his closing km's. Geb couldn't toe the line, and Tergat wasn't a factor. Meb for Silver, and the heroics of VanderLei De Lima for Bronze. All 3 of these athletes are where "Dreams do become Reality"

I am glad to hear your mindful of this ethos and believe in being the best from one's self and not Pharma. That is a good idea by withholding a certain amount of winnings to provide an incentive for clean management and protect the organizers.

Can you please provide an explanation as to why you stated Africans do not respond to EPO?

I believe "Shilohdoesntcare" made a point about it wasn't a significant difference all this dates back to 2010? We've learned a lot since then of course In this sport a difference is significant, example being the little things, nutrition, massage, monastic lifestyle all these are big dividends on the start line.

yyy wrote:

who is the coach of Wanjiru????

Jason Mbote, at least as of this 2018 tweet:

ok, thanks. I was under the impression that he was Italian.

He’s not banned yet. 10 April is the date from which he is provisionally suspended.

Ban trollism, ban LRC!

Ban the fast black guys because boohoo they are fast and work really hard

Compare the training of the top Kenyans to the training of the Tinman group.

Focus and sacrifice vs. Instagram and junk food.

llllllooooolllllllllll wrote:

Ban trollism, ban LRC!

Ban the fast black guys because boohoo they are fast and work really hard

Compare the training of the top Kenyans to the training of the Tinman group.

Focus and sacrifice vs. Instagram and junk food.

And dope, don't forget the dope.

llllllooooolllllllllll wrote:

Ban trollism, ban LRC!

Ban the fast black guys because boohoo they are fast and work really hard

Compare the training of the top Kenyans to the training of the Tinman group.

Focus and sacrifice vs. Instagram and junk food.

Plenty of sacrifice. Sacrificing their morals in order to win races.

Too many now. Time to take proper action.

Only one way to beat the doping in Kenya (but is the same for others countries) not easy but possible. It was suggested in a interview by Dott Luigi Cecchini famous to be coach of some of the greatest cyclist in europe.

He was the guru when it comes to training and since a doctor many accused him to be also a doping guru.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Cecchini

In a recent interview he said that to beat doping we need to invest money in a special police secret agents, and from there monitor everything . So example Kenya. Ok . You begin to track everything , to track phone mobile phone. to stop cars and control cars that go and come from training camp. Following the athletes and so on . Dont worry that you will catch many big fish in this net. Who sell the Epo who buy the Epo, who transport the epo, Doctors, Athletes.

And please stop to talk about Italians, italians coach. They dont have any relevance in the doping problem. the doping is something of the Kenya, Epo comes from India, and is selled in Kenyans drugstore. Italians are there to work as agents or coach not sell Epo,or give Epo to athletes

The anti-doping experts won't find evidence specifically for "EPO" (i.e. a positive test for EPO), but they can determine if the abnormal hematological response was the result of an ESA or if it's more suggestive of transfusions or both. The threshold standards to sufficiently prove a case is on a specificity level; 99.9% specificity usually being the minimum for a provable case: "less than 1 in 1,000 chance that the abnormal values and variations observed in an athlete’s ABP profile could be explained by a normal physiological or pathological cause." Some cases,though, are as high as 99.99% specificity (1 in 10,000 chance!).

Wanjiru isn't the first Kenyan charged on a hematological-anomalies ABP case. There's currently four other Kenyans that were flagged with three already found guilty in the Disciplinary Tribunal hearings (Kiptum, Rutto & Chepchirchir), with one still pending a hearing (Chepkirui).

If you want to read the full decision from DT hearings on the Kiptum, Rutto & Chepchirchir cases including the deatails of their ABP profile, the evidence proving doping, the athlete's defense & explanation, etc., use the AIU "First Instance Decisions" link, find the athlete(s) you're interested in and clink on the "outcome" bar:

kingkimmetto wrote:

Kimetto was the only clean one? Sad if true.

Such a good post :D

Kimetto to me is an absolute legend. Probably the gimpiest little Kenyan they could possibly find who just loaded up for 6 months, broke 2.03 in Berlin, smashed the CR in Chicago and then fittingly both figuratively and possibly literally, just disappeared back into a cave in Kenya never to be heard of again.

Pure comedy.

Are you talking about Operation Galgo with Dominguez? She was arrested in the Galgo doping ring in 2010 but was acquitted of any charges in 2011. However, she was popped on an ABP hematological-anomalies case and had all results annulled from 2009 through 2013 including her 2009 WC gold & 2010 EC silver - career doper (you can Google her CAS hearing for further details: 2014/A/3561).

I believe the Toss case involved a sample collection error?