Ndereba "Best", Radcliffe "Fastest"

Fact is Radcliffe would give it all up, London, WR's, 30.01, Commonwealths, Chicago etc.... for athens and when the pressure was on she blew.... she has not raced well AT ALL this year since London, she looked trhird rate at Europa Cup... only time will tell but she is not likely to be very confident going into the marathon if she has had her ass whipped ina tough torturous 10k. 8 days is not a long time... I don't think she will be able to run sub 2.20 after an effort like that, question is, will she need to?

I hate it when people type in upper-caps, but just this once I am going to do it, hoping that the message gets accross LOUD AND CLEAR:

FIRSTLY - WHY THE F*CK ARE PEOPLE BASING SO MUCH OF THEIR OPINIONS ON ONE RACE WHERE PAULA WAS SICK AND INJURED?! IT'S NOT LIKE SHE HAS A HABIT OF DROPPING OUT OF MARATHONS!! SHE HAS WON FIVE OUT OF SIX MARATHONS WHICH IS THE HIGHEST WINNING RATE OF ANY FEMALE MARATHONER IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

SECONDLY - WHY THE MISCONCEPTION THAT PAULA CAN'T RUN IN THE HEAT?! DO THESE NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU?!:

30:21 - 10km, San Juan

69:07 - HM, Veracruz

67:35 - HM, Vilamoura

30:27 - 10,000m, Seville

30:26 - 10,000m, Sydney

THE HEAT WASN'T THE REASON SHE DNF'ed IN ATHENS!

THIRDLY - WHY GO ON ABOUT PAULA'S MARATHON CHAMPIONSHIP RECORD WHEN SHE HAS ONLY ENTERED ONE CHAMPIONSHIP MARATHON - THAT SHOULD BE DISCOUNTED ANYWAY, AS SHE WAS SICK AND INJURED. DON'T USE THAT TO JUDGE HER BY - WE DON'T JUDGE NDEREBA OR ANYONE ELSE BY THEIR WORST MARATHON, SO WHY SHOULD WE DO IT TO PAULA?! NDEREBA HAS RAN MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY MARATHONS AS PAULA, SO OF COURSE SHE'S GOING TO HAVE MORE CHAMPIONSHIP MARATHONS TO HER NAME!!

FOURTHLY - SOME STATS:

Catherine Ndereba

Won seven of her fourteen career marathons (winning rate of 50%).

Three sub-2:20 clockings

Hasn't been under 2:23 in any of her last five marathons

Paula Radcliffe

Won five of her six career marathons (winning rate of 84%).

Four sub-2:20 clockings

Has never ran slower than 2:23:10

(BTW - this isn't specifically in reply to 'George W has no brain'... it's more a response to the numerous retards who have posted on this thread so far).

A list of her excuses would be just as long if not longer.... I'd love it just once before her career ends for her to come on tv and say 'the other girl ran really well, she was better than me'.... magnesium injections, viruses, hematoma's, heat, cold, low Blood counts, for christs sake everybody else has problems now and again but they don't need to broadcast it...t

Look at other who failed a the Olympics who were expected to win and took their defeat with dignity, Felicien for example? Did Tergat go around crying? She was even crying after the Europa Cup, despite claiming she knew she wasn't in shape and it wasn't anything to worry about.

She is a great athlete, but she lets herself down with the way she deals with the media.... her management are terrible...

Can anyone explain how Radcliffe is different than Khannouchi regarding marathons?

Radcliffe is excellent, by far the fastest female marathoner of all-time, but she is not the greatest. We all saw her lose not only the marathon at Athens, but her composure as well, when she found herself being dropped by Noguchi and being pressured by Ndereba and Alemu.

We mention her championship record because that is were legends are born, if I can quote the NBA.

Trust me, one day a woman will run 2:14:24 or faster, and it will be an Ethiopian or a Chinese or a Japanese, and then we will all forget or oddly remember a Paula Radcliffe from Great Britain that held the WR, but that's it, UNLESS, she wins Gold in Beijing and in Helsinki.

As of right now, she is no Frank Shorter, no Joan Benoit, no Stefano Baldini, no Abebe Bikila, she is not a great Olympic Champion. She just is not. Period.

She only goes in to such depth because the media are always pestering her and wanting to know why she performed the way she did. With the case of Felicien, it was obvious what happened - she fell over. But with Radcliffe, she was struggling throughout the races and uncharacteristically dropped out, so it's no wonder why the media were all over her wanting to know the reasons why.

Also, as fans of athletics, it's always interesting to know the reasons why athletes have bad days. She's not making excuses; she's merely giving reasons.

Funny you say that - she is managed by the same company who manage Felicien (Octagon).

GR wrote:

We all saw her lose not only the marathon at Athens, but her composure as well, when she found herself being dropped by Noguchi and being pressured by Ndereba and Alemu.

WHAT THE F*CK DID I SAY ABOVE? SHE WAS SICK AND INJURED IN ATHENS - IT IS NO WONDER WHY SHE UNDERPERFORMED AND WAS DROPPED BY THE OTHERS. UNLESS THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE GOING TO BE THE SAME IN ATHENS (I.E. STRONG CHALLENGERS, OPPRESSIVE HEAT, PAULA SICK AND INJURED) DON'T JUDGE HER BY THAT ONE BAD RACE!

Fullerton wrote:

What is Ndereba's wc and olympic tally, that she should be considered the best?

MARATHON Tally

1999 Boston 6th Place

2000 Boston 1st Place

2000 Chicago 1st Place

2000 Boston 1st Place

2001 Chicago 1st Place (World Record 2:18)

2002 Boston 2nd Place

2003 World Championship Gold

2004 Boston 1st Place

2004 Olympic Silver

2005 Boston 1st Place

Well it was a rhetorical question...

The answer is, of course, one wc gold medal, and one oly. silver medal. In the light of her times, Radcliffe can legitimately claim to be the best ever female marathoner. Based on her championship record, Ndereba cannot. Simple as that...

She may have the same media company handling her affairs, but I doubt they get involved in what she says in tv interviews, those closer to her, who are around her immediately after her dissapointments and successes, in other words, her husband.

I have never ever heard her give credit to a fellow performer, its just a sad state of affairs.

I think the problem is not just true of this case. Very successful sportspeople, particularly distance runners where the level of commitment is phenomenal become very wrapped up in themselves. I have looked up to several people and then meeting them was a massive dissapointment, they tend to be very one dimensional people who other than running have nothing or very little in their lives, this it seems is the price of success.

Thats why for me the real champions and the real people to admire in our sport are those like Geb and Tergat who can accept defeat as easily as a win and have become involved in improving the lives of others through their efforts, Geb employs something like 150 people, Tergat is involved in aid programmes across Kenya, they have families, they are rounded people and that is clear when they are interviewed.

Running is a mssive part of these peoples lives, but it is not everything, sometimes it would be worth them remembering this...

Athletes are not forced to speak to the media, they choose to, Paula wanted to speak to the press, in my opinion after all that happened in Athens it was ill advised, but it got a lot of publicity...

Fullerton wrote:

Well it was a rhetorical question...

The answer is, of course, one wc gold medal, and one oly. silver medal. In the light of her times, Radcliffe can legitimately claim to be the best ever female marathoner. Based on her championship record, Ndereba cannot. Simple as that...

According to you she can't. Good thing your opinion doesn't really mean anything. I think either one of them could claim to be the best ever, it's not a done deal either way. WR and the championships would get it done (see Michael Johnson or Carl Lewis at the time). So I would think if Paula wins in Helsinki then she's got it. I would think Catherine would have to set a WR.

Actually, it's not "according to me". OK, I'll spell it out for you: Grete Waitz has the same championship tally than Ndereba (1 wc gold, one olympic silver), but she has also four (I think) world records to her name. Based on championship history, and domination that makes her greater than Ndereba.

Rosa Mota's tally is even more impressive:

1st, '82 European Champs

4th, '83 World Champs

3rd, '84 Olympics

1st, '86 European Champs

1st, '87 World Champs

1st, '88 Olympics

1st, '90 European Champs

Rosa Mota's non-championship marathon record:

1st, '84 Chicago

3rd, '85 Chicago

1st, '86 Tokyo

1st, '87 - Boston

1st, '88 - Boston

1st, '90 - Boston

1st, '90 - Osaka

1st, '91 - London

Based solely on her championships record, Rosa Mota is therefore the greatest of them all. No argument.

Based on time, Radcliffe is the fastest ever (and by what margin!) - no argument.

My previous statement ("In the light of her times, Radcliffe can legitimately claim to be the best ever female marathoner. Based on her championship record, Ndereba cannot. Simple as that...") is perhaps only an opinion, but it is based on solid facts. Yours isn't.

My argument isn't so much for Catherine as much as it is against Paula being called the GREATEST or the BEST EVER. I don't really think that there is ONE Female Marathoner that can claim the be the Greatest without argument. Without a doubt Paula is the fastest.

No Offense wrote:

Without a doubt Paula is the fastest.

so follows without a doubt Paula is the best.

no need to complicate thing my stoooopid little friend.

Then you do concur that this thread's title is a biased depiction of the sport (after all, then article comes from Africaonline!)

Can you write that in English? I don't understand. If you are trying to equate fastest and greatest you are mistaken. See 100 meters.

Granted, but having posted 4 of the 5 fastest times in history, and being 3mins 30 faster than her nearest competitor, PR can make a legitimate clain to being the greatest. As I have shown, Ndereba cannot.

claim, even...

"In Athens when Radcliffe withdrew from the race, Ndereba appeared on course for the gold until she miscalculated the battle plan of Japanese Mizuki Noguchi. whom she had beaten to second in Paris."

Excuse me? When did Ndereba ever appear to be on course for the gold in Athens?

bias wrote:

"In Athens when Radcliffe withdrew from the race, Ndereba appeared on course for the gold until she miscalculated the battle plan of Japanese Mizuki Noguchi. whom she had beaten to second in Paris."

Excuse me? When did Ndereba ever appear to be on course for the gold in Athens?

Ummm she lost by 12 seconds.