Leah O'Connor is right

Because speech is violence.

On the one hand, Letsrun could stand to modernize their forum , moderation policies and homepage among other things.

On the other hand this is not just a Letsrun problem, it’s an internet problem.

On the other hand this is not just a Letsrun problem, it’s an internet problem.

Sure, it's an internet problem, but to dismiss it as just "welp people are jerks and sexist as$holes, I guess we can't do anything about it!" is ignoring what Leah is talking about. She is not advocating at all to invoke a Big Brother moderator to the forums, she's asking human being to more decent and to respect women. Now, I realize that's hard for a lot of the people who post here, but what she's saying speaks to a MUCH LARGER need to respect women in sports. You can either choose to support women, regardless of their weight and deemed attractiveness, or you can continue to perpetuate your toxic hubris from behind a keyboard.

Reddit is the largest internet forum I can possibly think of, and they manage to have thriving communities of respectful people in millions of categories. Most reddit boards have basic rules like "don't troll other users" or "don't call someone ugly" because the goal of the Reddit channel is to foster worthwhile posts, rather than a bunch of sh*tposting trolls.

Dear Rojo and Wejo, no one considers Letsrun a beacon of track and field news. You are literally the last on the rung in terms of honest journalism because of the toxicity of your message boards. Your articles might be sound and informative, but your message boards spoil and honest journalism you could provide.

Best,

A female runner

Oh, and while your forum continues to crash and burn in terms of reputation, if you have any plans on redeeming it, I might suggest making a more user friendly platform that doesn't look like it was designed in 1997. And because advertising is so important to you, I'd also consider alternative, modern methods of ads that don't link random words in peoples' posts to websites no one wants to visit. The only reason people are clicking on those words and driving up any CPC metrics are because it's an accident.

Thanks!

My point wasn’t that it’s directly hindering people. Please show me where you found that in my post? My point was a response to a person who pointed to YouTube comments being worse than LRC as if that justified offensive comments here. YouTube is notoriously bottom of the barrel commenting, so being above that isn’t saying much.

Furthermore, my point wasn’t saying the moderation was wrong or right or either or that I “want every post [I]think is trash deleted (however for years I’ve advocated that this board would benefit from required registration for posting. Would it solve all problems? No. But it couldn’t hurt). I have reported posts. I know that the internet isn’t all sunshine and roses. My whole point was that when presented with saying something rude or intentionally negative, maybe people could just think before posting. Just a thought.

RunaroundCle wrote:

Also, I just went back to your original post I replied to, and in general Im in agreement with 99% of what you wrote. My initial comment was solely a general statement on the comparison of really any commenting on the internet to YouTube commentary. I just think that’s sort of a cop out for behavior that could be avoided online (not just in this case but in general).

So how exactly are you evaluating the sites reputation? Until you have objectively gone out and sampled people to find out the rate at which people get on the site, all you have done (or Leah for that matter) is propose subjective evidence. You offering your evaluation of where LR stands on journalism is simply more of the same. I can offer the same level of "valid" evidence by saying a lot of people I run with get on here and read the articles and the boards. In your follow up post you realize metrics can be skewed. You or anyone taking such an extreme position is simply getting the data at the tails. So what makes you assert that this site isn't a place for news? You get a general sense? You hear from people you know? You see that a couple of runners say this? It is not a place for news or discussion, but you are somehow on here posting on a thread with < 80 posts to date?

Your assertion that women in sports are not respected or that they aren't being "decent" to women or need to be more respectful on here is just as subjective. Women's running and performances are noted on LR as much as men's. Read their front page and you can verify that the brojos cover the women's and mens races/results with the same diligence. So, if you are saying on the boards, it seems that people are not as charitable to women, I would say read threads on men. They seem to get the same level of scrutiny. The boards and their articles are also two different things. When they write on topics that is journalism. The boards are not journalism, but opinion. I think their front page, writing, interviews, etc is a pretty well rounded view of what is going on in running at the time. If you are so sure of your assertions, webscrape the message board, propose your chosen methods/metric and support the statement with the actual data. I am sure some social science journal would love to publish your findings. I would certainly be open to reading it and I think many people would change their views with more than anecdotal evidence. As it stands, we are all on this supposedly toxic board discussing things reasonably.

I think the larger point of the message board is a speech issue. There are a lot of people on here who take extreme positions on here and then act as if that is the norm. I think racist, sexist, or other derogatory items should be taken down. However, what constitutes something as sexist should be from a moderate perspective. It shouldn't be from a vantage point of someone with extreme sensitivity or apathy for the topic. The world isn't obliged to conform to everyone's extreme nuanced ideology. There is no right to living and never being offended. So, I agree with Wejo in erring on the side of free-speech. If you shut down the rough parts of topics, important things never get discussed. If we simply adopt the notion that as soon as someone is offended, we stop discussion, it is only a matter of time before nothing is discussed at all. I agree with you that when people post toxic things, it detracts from real discussion. I think LR is saying that as well and has taken steps to mitigate it as well. I simply disagree with your notion that women are treated differently. Certainly the LR site covers men and women. On the boards, it seems like men are treated as uncharitably by terrible posters as women.

On a final free speech note, I am glad the LR board exists so you can say what you think.

So how exactly are you evaluating the sites reputation?

No, I did not go out and conduct a survey regarding the site's reputation. But being very connected in the running community and by simply reading replies to Leah's post, it's very obvious that people despise the LR message boards. Take a look for yourself, pros like Colleen Quiqley, Shannon Rowbury, Genevieve Lacaze, and Molly Huddle all expressed their sincere dislike of this platform and that they stopped reading it because of his distasteful peoples' comments were in the message board. So my logic isn't unfounded and perhaps it's a reason to question the integrity of what he message boards offer.

Afemalerunner wrote:

Oh, and while your forum continues to crash and burn in terms of reputation, if you have any plans on redeeming it, I might suggest making a more user friendly platform that doesn't look like it was designed in 1997. And because advertising is so important to you, I'd also consider alternative, modern methods of ads that don't link random words in peoples' posts to websites no one wants to visit. The only reason people are clicking on those words and driving up any CPC metrics are because it's an accident.

Thanks!

Afemalerunner wrote:

Dear Rojo and Wejo, no one considers Letsrun a beacon of track and field news. You are literally the last on the rung in terms of honest journalism because of the toxicity of your message boards. Your articles might be sound and informative, but your message boards spoil and honest journalism you could provide.

Best,

A female runner

I very much disagree with this assertion. I will be forever grateful to the Brojos (if anyone has a bone to pick about this website it may be them - they certainly get the lion's share of abuse - some of it from me) for starting this site. I know they like to think of themselves as journalist but I think we all know that they mostly aren't - so you may be trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. (Aside from the addition of female moderators they should also hire a real life journalist)

I am a runner from the 70's and 80's. Running absolutely dominated my young adult life and I was a very big track fan. Years go by and life happens, I became a hobby jogger and spent the vast majority of my days in the dark about the sport. I knew very little of the athletes, training groups, nothing about NCAAs or HS competition, latest training methodologies, etc. I didn't realize how much I missed the sport...until I found LRC.

Now that my kids are running I was able to overcome my old school running ways and access some of the best minds of today's HS coaches to help them in their pursuits. My kids actually think of me as some kind of coaching guru when, in actuality, it is because of this site.

I am married, 20 plus years, to a wonderful woman who is a runner as well. We have 4 kids, all of them are considered good runners in their own way.

But guess what? I was once a young male. When we got together for long runs we would say things about females that you'd probably take offense to if you were with us. Maybe because this message board is so male dominated its origins come from those long run discussions about women. All of my ex running buddies turned out to be excellent pillars of society, maybe because there was not a written record of what we talked about. Who knows but in this case context matters.

Because some immature male objectifies women or says something stupid does not necessarily mean he'll be a misogynist for the rest of his days, or that he will influence others to be just like him, or that his opinion is worthwhile, or that you can shame him into acquiescence. The ability to ascertain what to be offended by is a valuable life skill that everyone needs. Unfortunately, if parents aren't teaching their children to slough off the dregs of society then somebody should.

I'm with LRC on this one; it is more important to maintain anonymity and the freedom of expression then let the 2%'ers drag the site down to the level of Runners' World.

That being said, it's true that I would steer my daughter away from here until she is mature enough to handle the trolls. My boys visit the site and think all the "old runner guys are hilarious because they just say it like it is." To that I warn them that this site is a double edged sword and that the internet is forever.

Afemalerunner wrote:

[quote]

she's asking human being to more decent and to respect women. Now, I realize that's hard for a lot of the people who post here, but what she's saying speaks to a MUCH LARGER need to respect women in sports. You can either choose to support women, regardless of their weight and deemed attractiveness, or you can continue to perpetuate your toxic hubris from behind a keyboard.

Dear Rojo and Wejo, no one considers Letsrun a beacon of track and field news. You are literally the last on the rung in terms of honest journalism because of the toxicity of your message boards. Your articles might be sound and informative, but your message boards spoil and honest journalism you could provide.

Best,

A female runner

I don't know who the woman this thread is about is. Never heard of her. A runner, apparently. Sure, I agree with her that people should respect women. It works both ways. There may be slander towards women here, but, there's also a great deal of negativity towards men on the board.

I don't hear many women on the board talking about negativity towards men. I rarely, if ever hear this.

And, you are incorrect about Letsrun not being a forefront for track & field news. I for one come here for news and many others as well, I'm sure.

Just out of curiosity, is the thread she is complaining about still up ? Judging from the caption , it looks like it started as a positive thread for her.