I guess those saying that he shamed her about her weight, they knew the number, and that they talked about it in front of everyone must have made it up too.
I guess those saying that he shamed her about her weight, they knew the number, and that they talked about it in front of everyone must have made it up too.
You know if Hasay's career is over due to injuries she could just say that Alberto touched her inappropriately a few times on a bus ride and the SJW's and media would back her up with Millions in Cash for interviews and virtue signalling! This is Oprah Winfrey calling! It doesn't matter what the claim is now, the witchhunt is in full swing!
REMEMBER ME!!! I USED TO BE IN NOP TOO! SALAZAR SAID I WAS FAT AND NEEDED TO LOOK LIKE I WAS IN A HOLOCAUST CAMP TO BE COMPETITIVE! WAHHHHHHHH. ANTI-SEMETISM! THAT CATHOLIC MOCKED ME! OH MEDIA, WRITE ABOUT ME TOO!!!!
lolitaville wrote:
It doesn't matter what the claim is now, the witchhunt is in full swing!
It isn't just Alberto, either. My coach always used to discuss weight with me in college. He remains a highly successful coach. I am thinking about contacting my local media and seeing what will come of it. I didn't know I was a victim at the time, but I am starting to realize that he was very controlling with his words about staying lean, eating right, and training hard.
I think the time has come for ALL OF US to tell our stories!
Bitches be crazy
Worried about Mary wrote:
I believe Mary is a victim. I believe that she was openly struggling with many mental issues and physical issues and NO ONE came to her aid. Those close to her let her down and failed her. This includes AlSal, Nike, her teammates, and - most importantly - her parents.
The way she was sacrificed to the machine is what is reprehensible and I feel deeply that she is owed a debt in some way. Someone needs to make this right for Mary.
What I do NOT believe is that this has anything at all to do with MeToo or toxic masculinity or gender disparity or sexual abuse. I am not sure why the NYT is spinning these narratives. This poor young woman has been through so much, and now she is just being used again. I am not worried about AlSal or Nike. I am mainly concerned that the NYT just threw Mary in front of the Alt Right Troll Machine for no reason other than to sell clicks.
I hope that she has a family member or friend that is reading this that can help her out. If she wants to run again, she has the talent to do so. She can be a world beater with the right coaching. If she no longer wants to train, that is fine as well. She needs to find peace and this article just took her in a 180 degree turn away from it.
See this is a good post.
Except the only “machine she was sacrificed” to are the inherent demands of this sport, which is a ruthless business.
Alexa Efraimson has/had similar ability at the same age, went pro very young, has had her ups and downs, and has posted good results in recent years.
The fact that Mary, with or without “coercion” from the NYT, has framed this in the progressive flavor-of-the-month narrative is damning because it comes across as opportunistic (piling on after Salazar/NOP ruling) or, much worse, proving to *still* be manipulable as demonstrated by attempting to reunite with Salazar quite recently then coming out with this smear piece “can’t shame a victim” nonsense.
Regardless of her alleged treatment maybe the real tragedy here is poor adolescent decision making, not some grand insidious scheme by the “powers that be.”
Certain people are predisposed to the cycle of abuse when around particularly manipulative individuals such as AlSal. This guy is looking more and more like a nut job upon hearing Mary's story in corroboration with other claims of female manipulation at that program. Incredible.
As a victim of abuse myself, I can say that it is exceedingly hard to break out of the cycle, and even if you exit, you still find yourself being called back to it. Extremely difficult situation with evidence based in neurophysiology. Manipulators and abusers can really exhibit quite a differential when paired with an at-risk individual such as a 16 year old girl (Mary Cain) who moved from New York to Portland. Even in her comments, she talks about how she "loved" Alberto. Much like Kara's comments. Alberto likes to play the father card hard, and when an abuser hands out reward less and less, the victim craves it more and more. It's very much like a drug effect in the sense of dopamine release and neuroplasticity. Once involved in the cycle of abuse, it's incredibly hard to escape - you feel that sense to get "high" one more time, or keep pushing thinking that Alberto will be that "father figure" again. Very sad.
I just don't understand one thing. If she had suicidal thoughts and the parents were "horrified' when they heard about it
How come they let her go back to join the team after all??? I would not let my kid go back to a place like that and let her join the NOP ever again!
Something is fishy about Mary's story. Wake up America!!!
Kam Blevins wrote:
REMEMBER ME!!! I USED TO BE IN NOP TOO! SALAZAR SAID I WAS FAT AND NEEDED TO LOOK LIKE I WAS IN A HOLOCAUST CAMP TO BE COMPETITIVE! WAHHHHHHHH. ANTI-SEMETISM! THAT CATHOLIC MOCKED ME! OH MEDIA, WRITE ABOUT ME TOO!!!!
Dam, the shills aren't even trying anymore.
victim of abuse wrote:
Certain people are predisposed to the cycle of abuse when around particularly manipulative individuals such as AlSal. This guy is looking more and more like a nut job upon hearing Mary's story in corroboration with other claims of female manipulation at that program. Incredible.
As a victim of abuse myself, I can say that it is exceedingly hard to break out of the cycle, and even if you exit, you still find yourself being called back to it. Extremely difficult situation with evidence based in neurophysiology. Manipulators and abusers can really exhibit quite a differential when paired with an at-risk individual such as a 16 year old girl (Mary Cain) who moved from New York to Portland. Even in her comments, she talks about how she "loved" Alberto. Much like Kara's comments. Alberto likes to play the father card hard, and when an abuser hands out reward less and less, the victim craves it more and more. It's very much like a drug effect in the sense of dopamine release and neuroplasticity. Once involved in the cycle of abuse, it's incredibly hard to escape - you feel that sense to get "high" one more time, or keep pushing thinking that Alberto will be that "father figure" again. Very sad.
Full respect to you.
Can you please let me know how Alberto abused her? I think that is where I am getting stuck. She claims to have been physically and mentally abused, right at the beginning of the video. Is this all about weight? I mean, my coach was ALL OVER US about weight in HS and College. I am a guy, BTW.
I am not arguing with you. I am just seeing a lot of nuanced talk and innuendo, but no claims of actual abuse. Is it abusive to tell your athletes to lose weight? Maybe it is. Maybe it should be. What are you implying with the phrase "Father Figure?"
BTW, not advocating for AlSal. Guy should not be coaching. I guess I am just curious as there are a lot of posts like yours on here and on Twitter and it makes it appear that he was sexually abusing her. Am I totally missing something?
Can Someone Fill Me In Please wrote:
victim of abuse wrote:
Certain people are predisposed to the cycle of abuse when around particularly manipulative individuals such as AlSal. This guy is looking more and more like a nut job upon hearing Mary's story in corroboration with other claims of female manipulation at that program. Incredible.
As a victim of abuse myself, I can say that it is exceedingly hard to break out of the cycle, and even if you exit, you still find yourself being called back to it. Extremely difficult situation with evidence based in neurophysiology. Manipulators and abusers can really exhibit quite a differential when paired with an at-risk individual such as a 16 year old girl (Mary Cain) who moved from New York to Portland. Even in her comments, she talks about how she "loved" Alberto. Much like Kara's comments. Alberto likes to play the father card hard, and when an abuser hands out reward less and less, the victim craves it more and more. It's very much like a drug effect in the sense of dopamine release and neuroplasticity. Once involved in the cycle of abuse, it's incredibly hard to escape - you feel that sense to get "high" one more time, or keep pushing thinking that Alberto will be that "father figure" again. Very sad.
Full respect to you.
Can you please let me know how Alberto abused her? I think that is where I am getting stuck. She claims to have been physically and mentally abused, right at the beginning of the video. Is this all about weight? I mean, my coach was ALL OVER US about weight in HS and College. I am a guy, BTW.
I am not arguing with you. I am just seeing a lot of nuanced talk and innuendo, but no claims of actual abuse. Is it abusive to tell your athletes to lose weight? Maybe it is. Maybe it should be. What are you implying with the phrase "Father Figure?"
BTW, not advocating for AlSal. Guy should not be coaching. I guess I am just curious as there are a lot of posts like yours on here and on Twitter and it makes it appear that he was sexually abusing her. Am I totally missing something?
No time in the past decade has it been appropriate for a male coach of a female athlete to talk to them about their weight. This is not their place and can do a lot of harm. Many coaches have been fired for doing just that. A professional organization should have someone that is better at handling this. Broadcasting the weight that they wanted Cain to be at to the whole team is a form of abuse. Some don't see it as abuse because they can handle it, some can't. Telling her after a bad race that she gained 5 lbs is abuse.
Can Someone Fill Me In Please wrote:
victim of abuse wrote:
Certain people are predisposed to the cycle of abuse when around particularly manipulative individuals such as AlSal. This guy is looking more and more like a nut job upon hearing Mary's story in corroboration with other claims of female manipulation at that program. Incredible.
As a victim of abuse myself, I can say that it is exceedingly hard to break out of the cycle, and even if you exit, you still find yourself being called back to it. Extremely difficult situation with evidence based in neurophysiology. Manipulators and abusers can really exhibit quite a differential when paired with an at-risk individual such as a 16 year old girl (Mary Cain) who moved from New York to Portland. Even in her comments, she talks about how she "loved" Alberto. Much like Kara's comments. Alberto likes to play the father card hard, and when an abuser hands out reward less and less, the victim craves it more and more. It's very much like a drug effect in the sense of dopamine release and neuroplasticity. Once involved in the cycle of abuse, it's incredibly hard to escape - you feel that sense to get "high" one more time, or keep pushing thinking that Alberto will be that "father figure" again. Very sad.
Full respect to you.
Can you please let me know how Alberto abused her? I think that is where I am getting stuck. She claims to have been physically and mentally abused, right at the beginning of the video. Is this all about weight? I mean, my coach was ALL OVER US about weight in HS and College. I am a guy, BTW.
I am not arguing with you. I am just seeing a lot of nuanced talk and innuendo, but no claims of actual abuse. Is it abusive to tell your athletes to lose weight? Maybe it is. Maybe it should be. What are you implying with the phrase "Father Figure?"
BTW, not advocating for AlSal. Guy should not be coaching. I guess I am just curious as there are a lot of posts like yours on here and on Twitter and it makes it appear that he was sexually abusing her. Am I totally missing something?
In today’s climate even suggesting that a woman should lose weight is tantamount to actual physical violence. You may as well be wielding a screwdriver cornering someone in a dark dirty ally with the way your disgusting victim shaming brain (dys-)functions. Allegations are facts. Freedom to criticize is slavery. War is peace.
You need to get with the times bruh. This isn’t 2014 when sh!t like this could fly. Break your “old boy’s club” mentality, we’ve come a long way to have you holding us back.
(I use “us” as a pronouncement of total allegiance with those myriad victims of systemic abuse and exploitation.)
Typical abuse cycle
I was die-hard supporting Salazar after the ridiculous ban was levied last month. I think, and still do, that Salazar was acting in good faith and never doped any athletes. I thought his competitive spirit was good and allowed him to do very well with his athletes within the rules.
However, after his response to Mary Cain's revelations, I no longer like to support him. Not only because he was mean and didn't care about her as a person in 2015, but because his response showed no sympathy or apologies. He "denies the allegations" when he clearly should have apologized for how she felt. This was emotional and physical breakdown caused by him and Nike, and even if some of the facts are incorrect and Mary blowed them up more in her mind, he still should have apologized for unintentionally hurting her. His response makes him seem like a jerk.
Come on Alberto, have some sympathy for the person who claims you destroyed her career, regardless of whether you think it was your fault
I don't think he has the ability to have sympathy. That's the way he comes across to me.
Hateraid wrote:
Can Someone Fill Me In Please wrote:
Full respect to you.
Can you please let me know how Alberto abused her? I think that is where I am getting stuck. She claims to have been physically and mentally abused, right at the beginning of the video. Is this all about weight? I mean, my coach was ALL OVER US about weight in HS and College. I am a guy, BTW.
I am not arguing with you. I am just seeing a lot of nuanced talk and innuendo, but no claims of actual abuse. Is it abusive to tell your athletes to lose weight? Maybe it is. Maybe it should be. What are you implying with the phrase "Father Figure?"
BTW, not advocating for AlSal. Guy should not be coaching. I guess I am just curious as there are a lot of posts like yours on here and on Twitter and it makes it appear that he was sexually abusing her. Am I totally missing something?
No time in the past decade has it been appropriate for a male coach of a female athlete to talk to them about their weight. This is not their place and can do a lot of harm. Many coaches have been fired for doing just that. A professional organization should have someone that is better at handling this. Broadcasting the weight that they wanted Cain to be at to the whole team is a form of abuse. Some don't see it as abuse because they can handle it, some can't. Telling her after a bad race that she gained 5 lbs is abuse.
Well that just isn't true. Just because women may not like the fact that they may have to lose weight in order to achieve athletic success doesn't make it inappropriate. I think that kind of recommendation needs to made under the guidance of a nutritionist, though.
Also, why does it matter if it's a male coach vs. a female coach, shouldn't ? I think there needs to be a level of emotional detachment and objectivity in your training if you want to succeed. If the suggestion, "you might need to lose weight to run faster" translates to "you're fat and worthless" in a girl/woman's mind, then clearly they're not mentally ready to be a professional runner.
"Broadcasting the weight that they wanted Cain to be at to the whole team is a form of abuse. Some don't see it as abuse because they can handle it, some can't" NO! We run into a huge slippery slope when we allow "abuse" to only be subjectively defined by the victim. For abuse to occur, I think there needs to be an intent to cause harm. I don't see how suggesting Mary to lose weight in order to get faster was abuse (it was stupid, but not abuse), based on her video I don't see any manipulation or intimidation occurring.
Cain says Alberto said certain things, and witnesses back up her claims. What part of that do you Nike shills not understand?
You need to spin off the toxic part of your crap company, like Dodge did with RAM, for example, and then just drown in the crap you spew. Alberto is evil, a cancer. So are the Cheaterfly shoes you developed, and secretly used. Every athlete supported by your corrupt funds is suspect. EVERY one.
automorphic wrote:
One of the biggest problems with the reaction here is that we expect victims to be heroes. The corollary of that is that if Cain (or Magness, Goucher, etc.) is not a hero, then she's not a victim. And so the discussion becomes a referendum on Cain, not on Salazar and the NOP.
It doesn't matter if Cain's a good person. Maybe she's a wonderful person; maybe she's a horrible person who just wants to get back at Salazar for not letting her rejoin NOP. (Obviously I would hope for the former.)
It doesn't really matter too much. What matters is that Salazar, by many different people and for many different reasons, has been accused of being a scumbag. Disbelieving this doesn't just require disbelieving Cain, but also Cam Levins, for instance, and many other people. And it requires another explanation for the weirdness that we've always known was there with Cain and the NOP.
If Mary Cain were the only person who has said something this negative about Salazar, then it would be her words against his, and it would be perfectly reasonable to question her motives and her character. But they're simply not relevant in a world where many others have said the same thing, and none of the accusations are inconsistent with who we already think Salazar is.
It's perfectly reasonable to say something like "Salazar's 4-year ban was too harsh given the relatively meager doping violations that USADA was able to prove". But to assert that Salazar isn't a major pox on the sport requires that you dismiss or disprove: the proven doping violations (and suspicion of more), the grey area behavior, the psychological manipulation of athletes including publicly berating them and focusing disproportionately on their weight, the hostility to the media, trying to get personal information of Letsrun posters, and intimidating rival athletes and coaches while playing politics with the rules of the sport (i.e. the Gabe Grunewald DQ).
In this ecosystem, the force isn't with any one accusation, but with the sum total of all of them. That's why it isn't about Mary Cain: it's about Alberto Salazar and the things that he's done.
FANTASTIC POST. I loved your talk about us expecting victims to be heroes.
I was talking to Weldon this morning and he was saying something similar about today's society. Someone is either the second coming or the devil, the greatest or the evilest when in reality it's more complicated than that but few are willing to admit that.
I just watched Cain on Good Morning America Today. I was struck how at the end of the story when they listed Nike's response they conveniently left out the part where Nike said she tried to rejoin the team. Does that totally discredit Cain's allegations? Not at all. But GMA didn't want to paint the full picture, they didn't want to deal with the messiness of life so they left that out and in my opinion that is journalism malpractice. It complicates the story of "Evil big company run by men abuses little girl" so it was left out.
Watch it for yourself.
https://twitter.com/GMA/status/1192793839884328960rojo wrote:
automorphic wrote:
One of the biggest problems with the reaction here is that we expect victims to be heroes. The corollary of that is that if Cain (or Magness, Goucher, etc.) is not a hero, then she's not a victim. And so the discussion becomes a referendum on Cain, not on Salazar and the NOP.
It doesn't matter if Cain's a good person. Maybe she's a wonderful person; maybe she's a horrible person who just wants to get back at Salazar for not letting her rejoin NOP. (Obviously I would hope for the former.)
It doesn't really matter too much. What matters is that Salazar, by many different people and for many different reasons, has been accused of being a scumbag. Disbelieving this doesn't just require disbelieving Cain, but also Cam Levins, for instance, and many other people. And it requires another explanation for the weirdness that we've always known was there with Cain and the NOP.
If Mary Cain were the only person who has said something this negative about Salazar, then it would be her words against his, and it would be perfectly reasonable to question her motives and her character. But they're simply not relevant in a world where many others have said the same thing, and none of the accusations are inconsistent with who we already think Salazar is.
It's perfectly reasonable to say something like "Salazar's 4-year ban was too harsh given the relatively meager doping violations that USADA was able to prove". But to assert that Salazar isn't a major pox on the sport requires that you dismiss or disprove: the proven doping violations (and suspicion of more), the grey area behavior, the psychological manipulation of athletes including publicly berating them and focusing disproportionately on their weight, the hostility to the media, trying to get personal information of Letsrun posters, and intimidating rival athletes and coaches while playing politics with the rules of the sport (i.e. the Gabe Grunewald DQ).
In this ecosystem, the force isn't with any one accusation, but with the sum total of all of them. That's why it isn't about Mary Cain: it's about Alberto Salazar and the things that he's done.
FANTASTIC POST. I loved your talk about us expecting victims to be heroes.
I was talking to Weldon this morning and he was saying something similar about today's society. Someone is either the second coming or the devil, the greatest or the evilest when in reality it's more complicated than that but few are willing to admit that.
I just watched Cain on Good Morning America Today. I was struck how at the end of the story when they listed Nike's response they conveniently left out the part where Nike said she tried to rejoin the team. Does that totally discredit Cain's allegations? Not at all. But GMA didn't want to paint the full picture, they didn't want to deal with the messiness of life so they left that out and in my opinion that is journalism malpractice. It complicates the story of "Evil big company run by men abuses little girl" so it was left out.
Watch it for yourself.
https://twitter.com/GMA/status/1192793839884328960
I agree with what you wrote, although it’s pretty rich for you of all people to complain about journalism malpractice.
I do wonder about her parents. Because I am interested in this story, I watched the video clip of her and her mother interviewed on GMA. Her parents should bear some responsibility. They had her immediately come home in 2015 after she called them and told them what was happening (cutting, suicidal thoughts). Obviously, the right thing to do. On GMA, her mother said, "I called her agent and said, "Get her out of there." AND THEN WHAT? Fast forward 4 years and Mary flies out there and asks to join NOP again. I understand how a person can be drawn back to someone they felt abused by, but she seemed to have a good support system in her family, emotional and financial. Her father is a highly paid anesthesiologist and her family lives in a wealthy suburb of NYC. They could afford to pay for a top therapist. They were clearly involved in her athletic career. It is hard to believe her parents didn't know how the world works and were unaware of issues that can affect young female athletes. Her father would have been exposed to all sorts of behaviors in his medical school and residency training. Were her parents wearing blinders because AS claims to be a devout Roman Catholic? Clearly, Mary needs a lower pressure, kinder training milieu to thrive. There is no shame in that.
