Hey RS - glad to hear you are feeling better, never fun to be sick. Did I he Mrs. RS is officially Mrs. RS and has made an honest man out of you? Congrats my friend.
Hey RS - glad to hear you are feeling better, never fun to be sick. Did I he Mrs. RS is officially Mrs. RS and has made an honest man out of you? Congrats my friend.
drcrusher wrote:
darkwave, I am always impressed by how much work you do in the pool. ~10 years ago I had a stress fracture in my foot but was still hoping to make the starting line at Boston (unsuccessfully, alas) so did a lot of pool running. I hated it and was happy to never go back to the pool once my foot felt better. I just can't imagine anyone doing it when they don't "need" to. But I have never liked swimming or being in a pool much to start. Did you start from a place of not liking it much or was it always something you were OK with doing?
I started doing it when I broke my left foot about 8 years ago. After that foot healed, I played around with it in my schedule. Over time, I've discovered that I can't stay injury-free on 7 days a week of land running. I can stay healthy on 6 days a week of land running, but I tend to get a bit stale (and yes, I do run my easy runs slowly). Generally 2-3 days of land-running and then 1 day in the pool is what seems to work best for my body and mind, and so I've gotten into a rhythm of it.
I don't find it too hard to do an hour or two in the pool. I think there's several reasons for that:
1) it is just one day at a time, and it's by choice, not by injury-forced necessity. I think pool-running always seems so tedious because most people who do it are faced with several weeks of nothing but pool-running. And they're not doing it by choice.
2) Many of my teammates and running buddies also mix land and pool-running, so I often have company. For example, on Sunday I went into DC and pool-ran at Wilson pool and caught up with a friend who I haven't seen for a while. It's actually unusual that I'm pool-running by myself. Sometimes we've got a pack of 5 or more, and it really becomes a group run.
3) When the weather outside is challenging, be it heat and humidity in the summer or sub-freezing temps and darkness in the winter, it's really nice to spend one or two days a week taking a break from the elements.
4) I feel that it really works well for me and benefits me, and that makes it easier to do. I think a lot of people hate pool-running because they feel like they're not accomplishing anything.
***
Runnersam - that's pretty cool about the flyby. Now I need to go back and review that workout. Funny thing is that that track is often packed on Tuesday mornings, sometimes with 100 runners or more, between all the various teams and groups. So you can go there and have a flyby with nearly everybody. :)
2019 Taipei Marathon
Eligibility Status: Waiting List
2019 臺北馬拉松 / Marathon / 馬拉松
We are sorry to inform you that your name was NOT selected among the lucky draw candidates for the 2019 TAIPEI MARATHON.
Well.
Anyway, I had a contingency plan in mind. I just signed up for the Standard Chartered Taipei Marathon on Jan. 19, 2020.
So that shifts me from 11 weeks out from goal race to 15 weeks. Any thoughts on how to spend that time? I just figured I'd circle back 4 weeks on my 2Q and repeat the last month... Or stay on the current progression, but distribute 4 "Easy" weeks. Hmmm, that one just occurred to me. Maybe. Or bandit the original race.... nonono
I have time to think about it
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
So that shifts me from 11 weeks out from goal race to 15 weeks. Any thoughts on how to spend that time?
A perfect opportunity to switch to 9-day weeks. The extra recovery days will set you up for great Q days. The best racing of my 47-year running career was at age 57-58 after adopting a 9-day cycle.
PSA- anyone who wants to throw down at Gary Bjorklund Half next June should sign up now before it sells out very soon.
Keep hammering.
Hey that's an interesting idea. So 2 quality workouts every 9 days rather than 7 days? Hmmm... The advantage to the 7-day is that I schedule my workouts on my days off... Wed and Sun... 9 days would mean rotating workout days, right? Hmmmm... Let me think this through Thanks, Allen! Good to see ya!
Great idea, Allen. You got me "out of the box."
Here's the "tentative" direction...
I was looking at 11 weeks remaining of the original 2Q progression. That's 22 Q days. So I'll keep my WED/SUN rhythm and make it a 2W/3Q: Sun-Wed-Sun-NoQ-Sun-Wed-Sun-NoQ...
Unless my ciphering is askew, I get in all of the original Q work I had planned to do, along with an extra month of mileage and margins for error. This is good.
Much obliged, Allen.
I would spend that month popping the miles. But then again. Healthy RRR always has liked the miles.
Jeff, if you email me, I will send you my 9 day week plan from Chicago 2018. It might be an interesting starting point since you’ve been doing Daniels oriented stuff recently.
Actually, I think the 9 day week was earlier in the cycle, and I went to an 8 day week once the main marathon phase started.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q8B64JFY27NJsZnM08z64PDqgUzHa6-hfl_u5E_nOo0
Thanks for that share, Smoove. You guys are always so helpful.
Prior to this year, I would have been more open to a kind of "unbalanced" schedule because I had a lot more flexibility with my working hours. As it is, I'm still flexible enough to have Wednesday off, so it makes sense for me to stay on a Sun-Wed rotation. On that OFF Q Wednesday, I'll just do easily mileage, a medium long run. But we'll see how it goes. RRR is right about the chance for miles.
I’m prob going to go to a workout every third day after my workout HM in 10 days.
I will still calculate my mileage etc sun-sat tho (as Sunday is the God ordained first day of the week you heathens!)
Always felt like I needed at least 2 days between workouts. 3 Q days in 7 days is to much for Me.
Coach Jeff ROC wrote:
Hey that's an interesting idea. So 2 quality workouts every 9 days rather than 7 days? Hmmm... The advantage to the 7-day is that I schedule my workouts on my days off... Wed and Sun... 9 days would mean rotating workout days, right? Hmmmm... Let me think this through Thanks, Allen! Good to see ya!
For awhile there I was doing the following rotation and was feeling amazing:
EZ - EZ - Q - EZ - EZ - Q - EZ - EZ - Long Run
So technically that is a 9 day rotation. The problem was that it was difficult to fit the Long Run in my real life schedule on such random days.
Smoove wrote:
Actually, I think the 9 day week was earlier in the cycle, and I went to an 8 day week once the main marathon phase started.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q8B64JFY27NJsZnM08z64PDqgUzHa6-hfl_u5E_nOo0
I did something similar before Chicago last year — 3 quality runs every 9 days during the early/vo2max phase. Once my mileage got high I went back to a 7 day cycle with just 2 quality days. It worked well and allowed me to squeeze in a few extra workouts.
For Berlin I stuck with the 7 day cycle with 2 quality days (Tuesday and Saturday). There were a couple of weeks where I thru in a third “quality” day on Thursday if I felt good, but it was nothing too taxing (eg fartlek or shorter tempo)
BHViking wrote:
EZ - EZ - Q - EZ - EZ - Q - EZ - EZ - Long Run
That was pretty much my schedule as well.
The Qs were LT workouts (like 3 x 2-mile or 4-mile threshold runs), VO2max workouts (like 6 x 800 at 5K goal pace), or medium-long runs at MP + 15 seconds/mile).
My initial fitness was 3:25 marathon, 20:03 5K. The nine-month race progression was:
5 weeks -- 5K @ 6:26/mi
6 weeks -- 10 miles @ 6:45/mi
13 weeks -- 5K @ 6:06/mi
17 weeks -- HM @ 6:42/mi
18-20 weeks -- off with injuries
31 weeks -- 15K @ 6:26/mi
32-33 weeks -- off with injuries
39 weeks -- Marathon @ 7:10/mi
At the first 5K, I was still getting a sense of my improved fitness, and ran way too conservatively. A week later I targeted 7:00/mi for a 10-mile race. To avoid being stranded in "no-man's land," I abandoned my target pace and chased down a group ahead of me ... and realized how fit I was becoming.
Knee problems plagued me, though, and I lost a few weeks completely. Other weeks I substituted biking on recovery days. Since then I've gotten a diagnosis, and it's much worse than the just the "runner's knee" I assumed at the time.
After the marathon, I took three months off, followed by elliptical training and a slow return to running. I salvaged one more racing season that included a track mile, an overall 5K win, a couple fine 15K age-group wins, and an age-graded 5K PR.
That was at age 59. At 60, I tried unsuccessfully to come back again. So now I'm unhappily retired from the sport. Enjoy it while you can!
darkwave wrote:
I started doing it when I broke my left foot about 8 years ago. After that foot healed, I played around with it in my schedule. Over time, I've discovered that I can't stay injury-free on 7 days a week of land running. I can stay healthy on 6 days a week of land running, but I tend to get a bit stale (and yes, I do run my easy runs slowly). Generally 2-3 days of land-running and then 1 day in the pool is what seems to work best for my body and mind, and so I've gotten into a rhythm of it.
I don't find it too hard to do an hour or two in the pool. I think there's several reasons for that:
1) it is just one day at a time, and it's by choice, not by injury-forced necessity. I think pool-running always seems so tedious because most people who do it are faced with several weeks of nothing but pool-running. And they're not doing it by choice.
2) Many of my teammates and running buddies also mix land and pool-running, so I often have company. For example, on Sunday I went into DC and pool-ran at Wilson pool and caught up with a friend who I haven't seen for a while. It's actually unusual that I'm pool-running by myself. Sometimes we've got a pack of 5 or more, and it really becomes a group run.
3) When the weather outside is challenging, be it heat and humidity in the summer or sub-freezing temps and darkness in the winter, it's really nice to spend one or two days a week taking a break from the elements.
4) I feel that it really works well for me and benefits me, and that makes it easier to do. I think a lot of people hate pool-running because they feel like they're not accomplishing anything.
I think reason #1 is probably why I disliked it so much. I didn't want to have to be doing it, but it was pretty much the only thing that had even a hope of keeping me in shape over that winter. It was also really hard, and not that I dislike working hard, but it seemed hard ALL the time. Maybe I was making it harder than it had to be, but I don't remember it ever feeling like there were "easy" days. Plus, I have always been uncomfortable in pools and water where I can't easily put my feet down with my head and shoulders well above the surface, so I was kind of always treading not just water while pool running but that irrational psychological line feeling like "I might drown"!
But I always like the IDEA of doing pool work because it's no-impact and recovering from it, no matter how hard it felt while working out, seemed ridiculously fast.
Maybe someday, I'll find a way to work it in. When I retire somewhere with warmer winters and have my own pool ;-)
Stone - That week looks good, will be nice to see the progress over the next 9 weeks
Mrs Stone - tough luck with the hammy, speedy recovery
slo - solid week, pretty intense LR with 24 @ M + 18, I feel like the taper and race day adrenaline/competition makes up that gap
AJ - good write up, sorry about the bathroom break, every runners nightmare (of course their worse nightmare is similar just without the break)
GT - nice job with the 8k! ive been trying to break 28 since I ran 28:03 in 2012 (and 28:01 in 2015)
jot quill - when dreams become reality, seems like your living it
GNR1 - some good workouts, best of luck in the 10 miler
Lanc - goodluck at Hartz, should be some people to run with or chase for that sub 17, be ready to hurt! and Yes the wolfpack got 1 bigger
Coach Jeff - build a bigger base, incorporate tempo and stride/hill sprints during it then start your X week program. my advice. 9 day schedule doesnt seem like the worst idea, I think Meb was on it before his 2014 Boston win. I'd say 7 day is still better for younger guys/gals
Hope all are well, I've been enjoying watching/following the IAAF World Champs. Heal up those who are injured. I have a decent list of running related quotes that I keep, maybe I will start to use them in my weekly posts as others have.
Thanks everyone!!
Getting in a few quick comments... folks are crushing it and I'm lovin it
RRR: Volume off the charts!
AJ: Another round of congrats on an awesome race -- the negative split dream
Stone: Really awesome long run work
Sub 6:00: Hope you're back in full action soon!
slo: still crushing those weeks like a beast, ride the line carefully!
OR: Hope the recovery comes along well, looking really strong still
GT: Wow awesome 8K race, that is blazing!
HHH: Stellar racing, especially that 5K WOW
drcrusher: Woohoo prize money $$ - congrats!
darkwave: wow that's some really great volume on 4 land days
RGM: Treadmill pace work is tough -- nice week and month!
Napper: Very excited for you to crush 2:40, looking fit fit fit
cocoon: GL on the half!
Jeff: Dang sorry to hear about the lottery, lot of folks shelling out good wisdom on plan adjustments!
BHViking and AJ,
Thanks for those insights into your training. I hadn't considered how many people had experience with a "non-weekly" type of schedule. Very interesting stuff! I feel pretty good about the options here. Gonna try to turn the lottery fail into an overall win.
What has been working for me in my two days between wed workout and sat workout is. Wed workout Thursday big miles Friday less miles sat workout. Has me recover better than even split the miles or less miles on Thur and more on Friday