Who loves the French?

Ok I've heard all the anti French crap and all the Frenchman can't fight jokes, doesn't make any sense....

Napoleon came how cose to conquering the known world? ... very close. France was the major pwoer in the world for long enough.

And the end of the day the French have a right to their opinion, as a nation they are very politically aware and well educated, I'd take the average Frenchman over the average American every time, interestingly Chirac has 99% of public opinion in France regarding the war, and you say he is doing something wrong?

Come on what do you honestly say of George W 'bungling' Bush, becasue most of us think he is a chump, a puppet of the real power men in america, the money men.

waz,

You'd hate to think what would happen if another terrorist strike hit the US huh? Well then, you should be all for getting rid of regimes that support such terrorism - Iraq is one of them.

The US has certain interests. We have a vision of government that we want to see propogated in the world. We support those nations who have similar visions.

We have done nothing but facilitate compromise. Clinton had Arafat (the REAL problem) and the then Israeli President Rabin here for peace talks. We have bent over backwards to accommodate and accommodate and accommodate. Our presidents have always said they believe Palestine needs a state of their own. We support that and have always supported that. Arafat has left no wiggle room. His leadership has been so horrible that more fundamentalist factions have sprouted.

You think that all would be well with the world if we just said, "Ok, go ahead and keep blowing up busses in Israel. Ok, go ahead and fly some more planes into our buildings every couple of years or so. Go ahead Saddam, continue to financially support the families of suicide bombers and continue to seek out Weapons of Mass Destruction."

Israel has a right to exist, and if we quit supporting their efforts to defend themselves, they would be gone before you could blink an eye - AND then, we'd have a bunch of misplaced Israelis pissed at us - fanatical groups would form, and we'd be in it all over again.

So, the only option is to pound them down (Saddam, Arafat, and Bin Laden), make sure that they have a Palestinian State (perhaps Jeruselum will be halved) and then let both the new Palestinian state and Israel know that we won't tolerate aggression from either side.

Oh please Waz, will you stop with the anti-Isreali spiel? Why does it have to get snuck in on every post on different subjects?

I think most rational people will admit that Isreal is not the most free society in the world, however you seem to ignore many obvious facts put forth, including those just above.

When the state of Isreal was created, there was a great population migration throughout the middle east, much as there was when India and Pakistan were divided. Many Arabs were forced out or decided to leave Isreal and sought refuge in the lands of the neighbouring 'brothers'. There they were locked up in refugee camps for generation after generation.

Nearly all Jews were forced out or decided to leave the anti-semtic countries they lived in to seek refuge in Israel. They, like refugees in any western country like US, Canada, UK or France, were brought in and assimilated into the local population and are now productive members of society.

Fortunately for Israeli multiculturalism, not all Arabs feld. In fact, there is only one country in the middle east in which it's Arab citizens can not only vote in elections, but also get themselves elected to that country's parliament. And while not holding a large number of seats, the varied nature of the Knesset often gives them a fair bit of influence.

On 5 seperate occasions since it's founding, Israel has been attacked by many of it's neighbours with the intent of total destruction and pushing the Jews into the sea. Given the authoritarian nature of these countries and their armed forces, the superior technical and training advantage of the Isrealis was enough to repulse these invaders, of whom, only two, Jordan and Egypt, have seen fit to sign peace treaties with Israel, giving them some level of security.

Recent polls conducted in the region indicate that the majority of Israelis are willing to accept the existence of a Palestinian state. Much less than 50% of Palestinians are willing to accept the existence of the state of Israel. So just how do you suggest negotiations to ease the current situation begin? When one side is adament that you be destroyed, do you come back with an offer to let them kill only half? How in any kind of real world scenario, can giving further concessions to a population with this massive belief, be any kind of progress towards peace and security?

Related to your other items, how has the 'kinder, gentler' approach to Islamist fanaticism demonstrated by the UK or France helped them deal with the hate and violence spewed from the Brighton Mosque or the blowing up of French tankers?

16x,

Any damage that the US has ever caused pales in comparison to the damage that we stopped (except perhaps for Vietnam which was an unjust war).

The world should thank their lucky stars that The United States is the most powerful nation in the world and not Iraq. Oh what a hell hole of a world that would be.

And you should be thankful that American men and women soldiers are going to die so that you can keep your fingers typing on silly running message boards and spreading your American propaganda.

I'd have more respect for you if you were enlisted or serving your country, but since you are not - you just want others to do it for you, you should shut the hell up about "policing the world".

16x-

I'd be curious to know where you got the figure 6000 dead. And I'm sure that they were all non-combatants.

So we should just let them attack with no repercussions ?? That'll really give them some incentive to stop. And STOPPING terrorism is the objective. Not oil, or revenge, or the economy.

uhm .... How about the people responsible for the attack ?? And the people who are financially behind those people ??

One, Iraq and Northern Ireland are different situations(Independance vs. Regional Dominance). To compare the two is simply an attempt to impose your own opinion by "making things up". Two, please present some facts that support your claim of US funding of terrorists. You can't simply throw out a statement like that without backing it up. Well, of course you CAN do it, but it underminds your argument. Whether you're right or you're wrong, please back up your claims.

So how many of those countries you listed would even BE independant if someone else wasn't there to protect them ?? I dare say none. The WWII reference has come up way too often, but it's still true. And who knows how many other dictators might have popped up since 1945.

Let's see if we can get back to the jokes about the French, I only get about 10 e-mails per day listing them. (By the way, we're laghing at you, not with you.)

Not everyone can be in the military. Remember someone has to pay for it.

I am absolutely grateful for the men and women that serve in our military. In the Flagpole Willy household, we pray for them, and we make sure to actively honor them on on Holidays dedicated to that purpose.

American service men and women will die in wars, and they have in the past. Currently, ours is a volunteer military, and so they men and women know what they are getting into when they join - they know that they may have to fight and may face death - it is a choice they make. It is not a choice I have made. That though doesn't mean that I can't support their efforts or that I can't ever believe that an armed conflict is necessary.

I like to have milk on my cereal in the morning, but am I not worthy of that like because I didn't do the milking? I'd rather have the dairy farmers do that for me. If your line of thinking were prevalent, then either we'd all have to be eligible to go fight (so that we could have an opinion about that) or we would have a military that could NEVER go to war because the percentage of military to civilian is so low. Surely you aren't saying that there is NEVER a case for war.

Some causes are worth risking your life for, and in the case of our military, these fine men and women have made it their choice, their calling, and it appears that there is no shortage of people wanting to join. Very very good for them. I can best serve my country and my community in other ways. Not everyone can be in the military.

All you liberals do is talk talk talk, no action. Fortunately for me, I am blessed with 3 children, and am expecting 1 more.

I have taught them right from wrong. Ask my children "Who is responsible for 9/11"; and without a pause, they scream in gleeful unison "Bill Clinton!". Ask them who is the biggest traitor to the US? "Bill Clinton"! Should Bill Clinton be tried as a war criminal and executed? "Yes, should have happened years ago"

Who is responsible for all the problems in this country? "Liberals and Arabs!!!" Who do we hate? (they pause, not sure if I mean Clinton or liberals?) What should we do to the french (this is a new one)? "Drop a nuclear bomb on them immediately!". (what's really cute is that they can't really say "nuclear"). Ask them what we think of peace protestors, and they respond "hit them with poison gas!" Do liberals deserve the death penalty? "yes, kill them all"

Its all very fantastic being a father. Seeing the joy in my children's faces as we speak and learn the truth. My second grader actually got into a fight at recess about 2 months ago because some little fairy said something negative about our President. God Bless America.

Well, it would seem that 16x and waz have run out of counter points. I officially declare them the losers of this thread.

Flagpole,

Must be bad Karma (or a right-wing/Yale-Skull&Crossbones/LetsRun conspiracy), but two long-winded anti-Bush rants went off into hyperspace never to be seen again! No loss I guess.

Neverthless, you should not say NEVER EVER, especially to one who likes to take up others on challenges.

As a 15 year old I announced at the dinner table I wanted to become a biologist. My older brother scoffed and said I'd never make it because I would not be able to get through college level math and chemistry. Although I left the table quite upset, in two years I went on to enroll at a top liberal arts school, where I earned a B.A. My grades were decent. Later I went to earn an M.S. in ecology and Ph.D. in biology, and I even did pretty well in graduate stats classes and upper level chemistry.

So here's the challenge. Mark March 15, 2005 on your

Ok King of Karma,

You move to Canada and then I will eat my words. While your example was someone doubting your ability, I don't don't doubt your ability to move to Canada - I doubt your ultimate willingness to do so.

Drop the concept that the French somehow have this moral objection to war with Iraq....they're simply covering their sneeky little asses. Once we're in there and finish what needs to be done, the world will see that the French(and a few other nations...) were deeply involved in circumventing the U.N. sanctions and selling Hussein military hardware,chemical components and the like. France also has long oil ties to Iraq, recieving a far greater percentage of their crude from Iraq than the U.S. So lose the "holier than thou" crap and brace for the truth in the near future Neville. Liberals like you have throughout history cost more lives through your inactions than any actions taken to preserve peace and worldwide stability.When will you guys finally see that?! As far as being policeman to the world.....yea we wear that hat...and it fits. Didn't seem to bother the Brits and the French when we were spilling American blood to preserve YOUR freedoms. Next time you need us...DON'T CALL 911. I'm sure you and the French can handle anything that comes down the pike....like you always have...yea right.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Some causes are worth risking your life for, and in the case of our military, these fine men and women have made it their choice, their calling, and it appears that there is no shortage of people wanting to join. Very very good for them. I can best serve my country and my community in other ways. Not everyone can be in the military.

yep, maybe you can tell us what this aggressiion is about again, cause from my view - its all been jibberish, and not worth shedding a drop of blood for....

no one said that Saddam isn't a liar, cheat, etc. but what exactly is the connection between Iraq and 9/11?

We will go after the terrorists and any country that aids or harbors them.Iraq(Hussein) wishes us harm, AL Queda wishes us(and all things western) harm. There ARE Al Queda in Iraq(recent reports have them disguised in Bagdad ready to ambush American troops). Hussein has Weapons of Mass destruction. Iraqi agent "A" hands Al Queda operative "B" some VX/Antrax/smallpox/seren/ricin/etc etc and you have the potential for mass casualties in London,NY,Chicago....take your pick! The nexus is real as is the threat. To ignore it is to ignore the obvious and invite a potential calamity of a scale we have never seen.There is no way to contain two guys in a Middle Eastern coffee shop handing off these types of materials. All the inspectors in the world cannot prevent it....for God's sake there were inspectors in N. Korea while they were developing nukes. Keep hiding your head in the sand pretending you don't see the problem or that it will go away, and you'll end up with an ass full of smallpox.

16x,

Briefly so that you will understand:

1) 9/11 changed the way we do things here in the US. We are now no longer going to tolerate terrorism in any form, and we are starting with directing our efforts at stopping terrorism toward us and our allies.

2) Saddam funds Hamas and pays money to the familes of suicide bombers in Israel. Saddam runs state-sponsored terrorism, and he already is in violation of all the rules imposed upon him by the UN after the Gulf War.

The two reasons above are enough. We've let him get away with this kind of crap for years. No more. We're going to set the rules and those who LOSE A WAR WITH US will abide by those rules, or we will affect a regime change. We tried diplomacy at the end of the Gulf War. We should have taken care of business then (but I do see the reasons for not doing so then, and at the time I was not for it, but hindsight is 20/20)

Truly it is only the uneducated or the blind who don't feel we are justified in unarming Saddam. I wish we didn't have to. It will cost lots of money to do so and then to have a presence there for years afterwards. But, the cost of not doing anything is higher.

Anyone who says - "All the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, so why don't we go after them?" don't have the ability to read, break down information, and understand things in a broader sense than just eye for an eye. It matters not where terrorists are from. It matters only where they get their money and training from - Afghanistan was freed. Iraq will be next.

I nearly forgot about this great moral / military victory committed by the French.

Remember in 1985 when France was testing its nuclear weapons in the South Pacific? Greenpeace (you know, the people who protect animals and rain forests) planned on sailing their flagship, the Rainbow Warrior, to the atoll France was using to test their bomb. Their plan was to protest nuclear weapons and the impact that nuke tests have on our environment. Guess what the morally upstanding French did? They dispatched commandos to Auckland Harbor in New Zealand, placed explosive charges on the hull of Rainbow Warrior, and blew up the ship. Oh yeah, one innocent person was killed by this very brave and noble act.

Go to Google and type "Greenpeace Rainbow Warrior Sinking" for more details.

Love that French logic. Jerry Lewis and Saddam = GOOD

Saving the environment =BAD

Yes, the issue is resolve.