Saucony's Jared Ward publishes scientific paper showing that Nike's 4% shoes really do work

A clean Kipchoge wearing Asics would be beaten by Yuki.

What's even the point about saying its a problem for non Nike atheltes when Saucony already has their version of a 4% shoe and Ward has been racing in it for a while now? People shouldn't be up in arms about it anymore honestly. Brooks, New Balance, Saucony, Sketchers...they all have one now. Get over it.

The 4% was actually just referring to efficiently which does not mean you will run 4% faster

.All this talk of % is misleading.

The old record was 1:28 slower but Kipchoge is a better runner than Kimetto. How much better well it got to be around a minute

What is the actual improvement

Can't believe how many runners in my club running 10km in 35-40 mins have forked out £260 ($325) for these shoes.

Where is the study measuring time not efficiency. Flat out time trial with sample runners in one shoe than a few days later in another pair of shoes?

Dril wrote:

[quote]BergLaufer wrote:

"Nineteen subjects performed two 5-minute trials at 4.44m/s wearing the Adidas Adios Boost (AB), Nike Zoom Streak (ZS), and Nike Vaporfly 4% (VP) in random order"

Why not do this but flat out and measure average difference by time not bounce etc.

It's not a rumor, you can read all about it and see pictures on roadtrailrun website

Ban them now.

rojo wrote:

Ward's 2:09 from Boston should be struck from the record books.

Pretty sure Ward's 2:09 didn't put him in any record books. Maybe "fastest Mormon"?

semantics i guess wrote:

rojo wrote:

Ward's 2:09 from Boston should be struck from the record books.

Pretty sure Ward's 2:09 didn't put him in any record books. Maybe "fastest Mormon"?

Great observation! I thought it was funny that Rojo singled out Ward but not all the Nike guys who have worn unavailable shoes. I mean, has Rupp ever run a marathon in a commercially available shoe? Certainly not his first 2 - nor did the other Rio medalists and a bunch of Trials runners including Amy and Shalane. His PR and last Chicago were probably in something similar to what Nike sells now, but not yet then. His first Chicago may have been in-between - ie the old one was out (and on his feet) but the new one didn't exist yet and couldn't have been worn by the general public nor Rupp.

All the Adidas guys who ran 2:03s ex-WRs would have done just about the same in 4%. Anyone who felt the spring underneath their feet are lying to themselves if they truly think this is not a cheater shoes.

This is interesting, in Formula One the top engineers when they retire always look back fondly on drivers who understood the cars and could help them fix technical problems, not the chiseled faced playboy drivers.

Interestingly an elite Kenyan told me some in his group haven't run well in the Vaporflys but the big difference for him was immediately after the race. His legs didn't feel smacked for days afterwards. He said he never felt so fresh the day after a half. I still think that they are too stiff on the achilles.

semantics i guess wrote:

rojo wrote:

Ward's 2:09 from Boston should be struck from the record books.

Pretty sure Ward's 2:09 didn't put him in any record books. Maybe "fastest Mormon"?

I'm sure one those Mormon missionaries got to at least one 2:0X Kenyan and they have the Mormon record.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

semantics i guess wrote:

Pretty sure Ward's 2:09 didn't put him in any record books. Maybe "fastest Mormon"?

I'm sure one those Mormon missionaries got to at least one 2:0X Kenyan and they have the Mormon record.

I don't agree with the faith, but why does Rojo and LRC hate the Mormons? For white dudes, they are good distance runners. Must be passed down from their pioneer DNA from running from the killers across the country to utah :)

ILike Shoes Too wrote:

DC Wonk wrote:

This morning I ordered a pair of the new Zoom Fly 3 that became available at about 10am. Will see if they're worth $160. I have no need for the Next%. Glad to see Nike lowered the drop to 8mm.

Everything about this post is dumb. The ZF3 sucks, just like 1 & 2. You'll be disappointed. But maybe you'll tell yourself they're worth $160 because you wasted that money and were too cheap to spend a few shillings more on real shoes. If you have no need for Next% (or 4% even), then you're slow. Period. Also, who cares if Nike lowered the drop to 8mm? What benefit does that give you over 10mm? And have you run in either to know why it's better or how it feels different? Everything about this post is dumb.

I've run literally a more than a couple thousand miles in the the ZF SP. No other shoe comes close for me. Yes, I've run in VF, but I don't do marathons and they are not worth the extra cash to me. I have the means to wear whatever shoes I want, but training eats through shoes fast. I'm not buying into a shoe that's done after 150 miles.

Everything about your post dumb - are you in HS? BTW, I've been running and racing well for about 40 years -- you?

Excuse me but Kipchoge never ran faster than or as fast as Kimetto until he got the 4% and elite aka next%.

You say they would have ran the same in the 4% based on what exactly? Kipchoge dropped a minute the moment he put the shoes on and he was already at 2:04.00. Anyone denying that the 4% and next% make you faster is dillusional.

To those saying the Zoom Fly are bad shoes, are any of you referring to the Zoom Fly Flyknit? If so I'm surprised to hear it. I've been running for many years with many months of 100 mile weeks, and I've found the ZF Flyknit to be the best training shoes I've ever used. Same type of a benefit you get from the 4% in terms of reducing muscle damage. And now you can get them for under $100.

Not sure if this has been mentioned or if it really matters, but Kipchoge and Rupp and several others are NOT racing in the 4% shoes that are reasonably available to all. They are racing in the Vaporfly Elite. The technology is likely nearly identical, but if you want to make a legitimate complaint, this could be it. The Elite version has never been available to the usual Tom, Dick and Jamin.

DC Wonk wrote:

I've run literally a more than a couple thousand miles in the the ZF SP. No other shoe comes close for me. Yes, I've run in VF, but I don't do marathons and they are not worth the extra cash to me. I have the means to wear whatever shoes I want, but training eats through shoes fast. I'm not buying into a shoe that's done after 150 miles.

Everything about your post dumb - are you in HS? BTW, I've been running and racing well for about 40 years -- you?

You sound slow.