MIT is D3.
MIT is D3.
I've met several D2 grads. Barely employable would be the best common description. It's not simply that the schools have poor standards, it's the dumb, drunken slackers who think putting all their eggs into running is wise that you'll be constantly surrounded by. Not the environment for personal excellence you'd find benefit in.
I went to one of the DII schools another posted listed. I majored in business and now I work in sales and make $350K. I got the job because my boss's daughter had just enrolled in the same school.
There are two ivy league guys in my running group. I make as much as both of them combined.
D2 is dumb wrote:
Very high? You need to learn the English language. The schools you listed have average ACTs of 26 and 27. Some other local schools, Illinois 29, St Louis 28, Wash U 33, Missouri 27. You are making the point that D2 schools are bad by listing some top schools that would be st the bottom when compared to D1 and at the lower end of D3.
If you cannot afford WashU, would you choose Truman State or S&T? Or would you choose Missouri? Most kids I know choose Truman or S&T.
lets snob dot com wrote:
These threads pop up at least two or three times a year and it always makes me laugh.
I went to a top end DIII school, perennially in the top 10 or 15 of those rankings for what that's worth. Yes it was a good school and I got a solid education. Would not be able to afford that now.
However, you can also get a very good education at a lot of DII schools, as well as DIs. An advantage of DII is that they are less expensive than DI or DIII and sometimes you can get some good merit and need based financial aid, and if you're an athlete some scholarship support but without the pressure of meat grinder DI programs. A lot of the better departments at the decent schools will have faculty that will work hard to get their students an education and placed into good graduate schools or entry level positions.
Some of the smaller/less populous states have decent DII schools in certain departments (e.g., Alaska, the Dakotas), and bigger states have directional schools are part of a good overall system (Washington, California).
So stop with your sniffy Ivy snottiness brojos and brojo pals.
Most DII schools suck hard academically. Colorado School of Mines is good. A few others have a program or two that is passable. Mostly though, Division II colleges are Conservative Christian colleges or directional colleges or satellite state colleges that open their doors to the worst of high school students. They then have to teach to that level, so the academics suck.
You don't have to go to an Ivy League college to get a good education, but Division II colleges on average are far from that. Division II and NAIA colleges are the worst academically on average. They suck hard.
There are twelve private universities in U.S. that are worth all the fuss: (1 through 8) Ivy League schools, Stanford, California Institute of Technology, Mass. Institute of Technology & University of Chicago.
OP, you can twist yourself into a pretzel believing where you go to college is more important than other factors. Do your parents have $200,000 set aside for your college tuition? If not, go to best state university available. Graduate with BA/BS by age 21 or 22. Graduate with honors. If you do not get a great job offer after a few months, go to graduate school, then go out there and be an asset to yourself, your family and the world.
Do not overly stress about agg. ACT. If you go to a $50,000 or $60,000 school, you will eventually see ten years from now, gals and guys in your gated community from ECU, Ball State or Kent State. I promise ten years from now, you will wonder why you fussed over agg. ACT.
killermike wrote:
Ggggh wrote:
Unless it’s Ivy League nobody cares where your degree is from. Employers just want to see the piece of paper. Whether it’s a D1 state school, D2 state school, or weird D3 liberal arts school, or weird religious school nobody cares.
I really disagree on this. I think some of it might depend on industry, but I have over 20 employees, and I certainly look at the name on the degree.
OP, take a lot of the advice you get on this forum with a grain of salt.
I agree. I consult for manufacturing companies, and sometimes they ask me to interview and hire. I am much more interested in a person with good grades from Williams or Vassar or Emory or Kenyon or even any large state school with a good reputation than I am in a person with similar grades from Upper Iowa University. If you went to Upper Iowa University, you'd better have one hell of GPA plus examples of serious involvement and leadership in addition to a passion for the work that comes through in the interview. Assuming all is equal there, Mr. Upper Iowa University's resume goes to the bottom of the pile.
d2 guy wrote:
I went to one of the DII schools another posted listed. I majored in business and now I work in sales and make $350K. I got the job because my boss's daughter had just enrolled in the same school.
There are two ivy league guys in my running group. I make as much as both of them combined.
So, you got a sales job and then only because you were lucky enough that your boss nutted at the right time and place to have a daughter going to the same school you graduated from, and that is your example of how a DII education is good? Oy!
Flagpole wrote:
killermike wrote:
I really disagree on this. I think some of it might depend on industry, but I have over 20 employees, and I certainly look at the name on the degree.
OP, take a lot of the advice you get on this forum with a grain of salt.
I agree. I consult for manufacturing companies, and sometimes they ask me to interview and hire. I am much more interested in a person with good grades from Williams or Vassar or Emory or Kenyon or even any large state school with a good reputation than I am in a person with similar grades from Upper Iowa University. If you went to Upper Iowa University, you'd better have one hell of GPA plus examples of serious involvement and leadership in addition to a passion for the work that comes through in the interview. Assuming all is equal there, Mr. Upper Iowa University's resume goes to the bottom of the pile.
Flagpole, if you are in upper management, if you are truly impressed that someone racked up a few hundred thousand dollars of debt or if you are impressed that someone has parents willing to write $60,000 per year tuition checks, you are a flawed individual and a flawed manager.
SomeoneWhoKnows wrote:
lets snob dot com wrote:
These threads pop up at least two or three times a year and it always makes me laugh.
I went to a top end DIII school, perennially in the top 10 or 15 of those rankings for what that's worth. Yes it was a good school and I got a solid education. Would not be able to afford that now.
However, you can also get a very good education at a lot of DII schools, as well as DIs. An advantage of DII is that they are less expensive than DI or DIII and sometimes you can get some good merit and need based financial aid, and if you're an athlete some scholarship support but without the pressure of meat grinder DI programs. A lot of the better departments at the decent schools will have faculty that will work hard to get their students an education and placed into good graduate schools or entry level positions.
Some of the smaller/less populous states have decent DII schools in certain departments (e.g., Alaska, the Dakotas), and bigger states have directional schools are part of a good overall system (Washington, California).
So stop with your sniffy Ivy snottiness brojos and brojo pals.
Most DII schools suck hard academically. Colorado School of Mines is good. A few others have a program or two that is passable. Mostly though, Division II colleges are Conservative Christian colleges or directional colleges or satellite state colleges that open their doors to the worst of high school students. They then have to teach to that level, so the academics suck.
You don't have to go to an Ivy League college to get a good education, but Division II colleges on average are far from that. Division II and NAIA colleges are the worst academically on average. They suck hard.
To be fair, the Letsrun brain trust of Gault and the JoBros all went to Ivies and all routinely exhibit D2 level education, from writing ability to thought process.
Outside of the Ivies and MIT, there is also a regional aspect. Everyone knows the Ivies, but outside of those, people will generally recognize the universities closest to them.
If you're in upper-management ... wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
I agree. I consult for manufacturing companies, and sometimes they ask me to interview and hire. I am much more interested in a person with good grades from Williams or Vassar or Emory or Kenyon or even any large state school with a good reputation than I am in a person with similar grades from Upper Iowa University. If you went to Upper Iowa University, you'd better have one hell of GPA plus examples of serious involvement and leadership in addition to a passion for the work that comes through in the interview. Assuming all is equal there, Mr. Upper Iowa University's resume goes to the bottom of the pile.
Flagpole, if you are in upper management, if you are truly impressed that someone racked up a few hundred thousand dollars of debt or if you are impressed that someone has parents willing to write $60,000 per year tuition checks, you are a flawed individual and a flawed manager.
You show that you know nothing.
All Ivy League Universities and the schools I mentioned by name are all ones that give "Full financial need". So, with that in mind...
1) There are a lot of kids from middle class backgrounds that go to those expensive-on-paper colleges and pay next to nothing to attend. The cut off for EXCELLENT financial aid at such schools is a home income of about $125,000. Have that income and no crazy savings outside of retirement, and you will get full tuition at any of those colleges. The kids who come from households that bring in $70,000 or less will get full rides (tuition plus room and board).
2) SOME of those kids come from wealthy families where they WILL pay nearly full price to attend, but why should I be against a kid just because his parents are wealthy? They still have to have the grades to get in (unless you are a felon like Felicity Huffman and cheat to get them in). They have to have performed well academically while there (which I already said). They still benefit from the top-notch education and being surrounded by brainy students during their matriculation. What do you have against wealthy people? MOST wealthy people are so due to hard work and smarts.
You are so very wrong.
Poison Ivy wrote:
SomeoneWhoKnows wrote:
Most DII schools suck hard academically. Colorado School of Mines is good. A few others have a program or two that is passable. Mostly though, Division II colleges are Conservative Christian colleges or directional colleges or satellite state colleges that open their doors to the worst of high school students. They then have to teach to that level, so the academics suck.
You don't have to go to an Ivy League college to get a good education, but Division II colleges on average are far from that. Division II and NAIA colleges are the worst academically on average. They suck hard.
To be fair, the Letsrun brain trust of Gault and the JoBros all went to Ivies and all routinely exhibit D2 level education, from writing ability to thought process.
Not everyone is a writer. I won't hold that against them.
Then they should hire writers to write. What sort of manager are you, a strip club boss?
Colorado Mines
Drunk Letsrun wrote:
Then they should hire writers to write. What sort of manager are you, a strip club boss?
Who said I was a manager? I own my own manufacturing consulting business.
Regarding the Brojos hiring writers, I disagree. This is a fanboy-created site about running. They are fans of running, not writers, not journalists. The site is fine as-is.
Doris Heritage wrote:
Has it always been this way? wrote:
Name one DII school that has rigorous academics, well known alumni, and a good reputation?
Seattle Pacific
Western Washington.
Go49ers wrote:
You really need to give yourself credit. Go for a big time D1 that gets no love like LBSU. Challenging, great weather and city, strong majors, underrated track program, and of course, hot petite Asian spinners that will let you finish inside of them. ??
you're gross and LBSU sucks. this kid is leaps and bounds above their academic standards, LBSU is for kids scoring 24s on the ACT, not 34s.
To the OP, you sound like perfect D3 material, if not, go to an academically strong d1 and try to run club or walk on the team.
Shitty state funding. That's mainly it. Also, state run schools, by design, are meant to be inclusive to people of most intelligence levels. I think this is stupid, because it cheapens the value of one's degree, but that I digress. The reality is there are plenty of D2 schools that can offer a great education, career opportunities, networking opportunities, but it really depends on your major. The sooner you figure that out the easier it will be to find a school that's right for you.
If I were you, I would find a college that suits you academically first. To be honest, if academics is what is really motivating you right now, running is most likely going to go by the wayside.