I guess I should have said "I think."
Nico drafted off him the whole race when they both ran 8:40, and that's worth 5-8 seconds (so it makes sense that without someone to draft off, Young runs 8:47). Sprout beat him at NXN, has been slightly faster in the mile despite not having a whole lot of sea level races, ran 1:53, etc. But not a whole lot to go off of, we'll have to see if they race in the post-season.
The entire athletic calendar, except for Cross Country, moved a week earlier beginning this school year. California schools have adjusted their calendars to mid-late August start and late May-early June end.
Having athletic events after schools closed was not popular with school folks. Next year’s meet will be on May 29-30.
Hal Harkness wrote:
The entire athletic calendar, except for Cross Country, moved a week earlier beginning this school year. California schools have adjusted their calendars to mid-late August start and late May-early June end.
Having athletic events after schools closed was not popular with school folks. Next year’s meet will be on May 29-30.
Thanks! I was a little confused that their state meet was the same week as ours when it is normally the following week.
Hi, Hal. I was wondering why cross country was the one sport not to move earlier.
As far as Nico's run goes.....It was pretty windy in Fresno for that meet. Look at the flags on the infield in the video
More than likely the reason was to keep the state championship meet on Thanksgiving weekend. Moving cross country a week earlier only invites more hot, hot weather.
Really old guy wrote:
This year was the 101st California State Meet. The California state cross country meet began in 1987.
Worthwhile reading:
http://www.cifstate.org/sports/track_and_field/2019_State_Track_and_Field_Program.pdf
Hey, thanks. I actually got talked into running cross sophomore year (usually ran roads, common at the time for teenagers) and there was no State Meet. It was sort of a waste of time. What happens at the end of the season? It's funny there was T&F decades earlier.
Old guy might know when these strange events (non-events?) like 1600 and 3200 started. I didn't participate in HS track when I was that age, so not positive what events were held, but I certainly never heard of these made-up distances back then.
Strangio already won the 3200 last year as a Sophmore as well as D1 XC State. He needed a new challenge so took on the double and couldn't quite do it. Young got the win and he deserved it. Went out hard from the start since he was racing those that were doubling back.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Humor backfail.
A misspelling does not compare to deliberately using a moranic abbreviation that no real Californian would use. The equally offensive, to me, "Frisco" has somehow become acceptable over the years, though.
Yes. Anyone that uses the term "Cali" should be sent to the gulag
Ozzie wrote: Even for a sub 9 minute guy, trying to run 4:20 from laps 3-6 with some inconsistent pacing is going to be enough to disrupt their race. Someone fit to run in the 8:57-8:59 range probably is going to fall short of that if they had taken a risk to go with the leaders.
^^ Such a beautiful mid 1600 he threw in here. It absolutely wrecked the field. High level racing.
v67 wrote:
I guess I should have said "I think."
Nico drafted off him the whole race when they both ran 8:40, and that's worth 5-8 seconds (so it makes sense that without someone to draft off, Young runs 8:47). Sprout beat him at NXN, has been slightly faster in the mile despite not having a whole lot of sea level races, ran 1:53, etc. But not a whole lot to go off of, we'll have to see if they race in the post-season.
No, drafting does not make 5-8 seconds difference. The 2-mile HS records set by Pre, Virgin and Fernandez were all solo runs. And by your logic, if Sprout had had someone to draft off of, he would have run under 8:35.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
v67 wrote:
I guess I should have said "I think."
Nico drafted off him the whole race when they both ran 8:40, and that's worth 5-8 seconds (so it makes sense that without someone to draft off, Young runs 8:47). Sprout beat him at NXN, has been slightly faster in the mile despite not having a whole lot of sea level races, ran 1:53, etc. But not a whole lot to go off of, we'll have to see if they race in the post-season.
No, drafting does not make 5-8 seconds difference. The 2-mile HS records set by Pre, Virgin and Fernandez were all solo runs. And by your logic, if Sprout had had someone to draft off of, he would have run under 8:35.
"This shows oxygen consumption (which is basically equivalent to energy consumption) for a runner running alone at 6:00/mile in a wind tunnel, versus the same runner running at the same pace one meter behind another runner in the wind tunnel. It's pretty clear that there's a big energy saving from drafting. Pugh runs some calculations to determine that at 4:30 mile pace, drafting one meter behind another runner on a still day saves about 80% of the energy you'd otherwise spend fighting air resistance. That corresponds to about 1 second per 400 meters at that pace, and more on windy days."
Seems conservative, to be honest, if there was any wind at all at Arcadia. Not sure if there was or not.
Also, I do think Sprout could run sub-8:35 for 3200m if he drafted off someone for 3150 meters. He's run 4:06 in the mile indoors and is actually better as the distance goes up. Owns the sophomore class 2-mile national record last year as a sophomore (8:49.XX), not a huge shock the guy is a talent.
v67 wrote:
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-drafting-help-in-running/SDSU Aztec wrote:
No, drafting does not make 5-8 seconds difference. The 2-mile HS records set by Pre, Virgin and Fernandez were all solo runs. And by your logic, if Sprout had had someone to draft off of, he would have run under 8:35.
"This shows oxygen consumption (which is basically equivalent to energy consumption) for a runner running alone at 6:00/mile in a wind tunnel, versus the same runner running at the same pace one meter behind another runner in the wind tunnel. It's pretty clear that there's a big energy saving from drafting. Pugh runs some calculations to determine that at 4:30 mile pace, drafting one meter behind another runner on a still day saves about 80% of the energy you'd otherwise spend fighting air resistance. That corresponds to about 1 second per 400 meters at that pace, and more on windy days."
Seems conservative, to be honest, if there was any wind at all at Arcadia. Not sure if there was or not.
Actual results don't back up the study. Pre ran a solo 27:43, which at one second per 400, would indicate he could have run 27:18. That time is equivilant to close to 13:00 even though he never broke 13:20. Dave Bedford's 27:30 WR record was solo which would, with a pacer, be 27:05, which would have been impossible for a guy who couldn't break 4:00.
Can you cite some actual results that support your belief in the significant of drafting?
v67 wrote:
Also, I do think Sprout could run sub-8:35 for 3200m if he drafted off someone for 3150 meters. He's run 4:06 in the mile indoors and is actually better as the distance goes up. Owns the sophomore class 2-mile national record last year as a sophomore (8:49.XX), not a huge shock the guy is a talent.
Im sure Nico Young could run 8:35 as well. You're just making assumptions and completely guessing. No one is a loser or winner. Young and Sprout are both studs and that's really the end of it. They both ran 8:40 for 3200m. They were 3rd and 4th at NXN.
The truth is unless you're at practice with Sprout or Young you will never know what you're actually talking about.
v67 wrote:
Also, I do think Sprout could run sub-8:35 for 3200m if he drafted off someone for 3150 meters. He's run 4:06 in the mile indoors and is actually better as the distance goes up. Owns the sophomore class 2-mile national record last year as a sophomore (8:49.XX), not a huge shock the guy is a talent.
Young also ran 3:48 in the 1500m. Whats your point about Sprout's 4:06? why so hard on Young? I looked up other posts from your handle and you really try and make a point that Sprout in better the Young. Is there something you need to tell us?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
v67 wrote:
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-drafting-help-in-running/Seems conservative, to be honest, if there was any wind at all at Arcadia. Not sure if there was or not.
Can you cite some actual results that support your belief in the significant of drafting?
kipchoge at nike’s sub 2 marathon attempt
Hal Harkness wrote:
More than likely the reason was to keep the state championship meet on Thanksgiving weekend. Moving cross country a week earlier only invites more hot, hot weather.
I was thinking it had something to do with the JC state meet being at the same place the previous week.
CoachB wrote:
Hal Harkness wrote:
More than likely the reason was to keep the state championship meet on Thanksgiving weekend. Moving cross country a week earlier only invites more hot, hot weather.
I was thinking it had something to do with the JC state meet being at the same place the previous week.
Absolutely the worst weekend to hold the State Meet. These kids run in heat all year. If heat is a concern start at 7:30 am.
When the Cross Country State Championship Meet was approved by the State Federated Council in October, 1986, one of the stipulations was that it be held on Thanksgiving Weekend so there would be no lose of school time to participate.
We will be in the 33rd edition of the meet on the same weekend on November 30. Enough said.
Everyone getting very aggressive about my opinion!
Just hypothesizing about which of the superjuniors is fittest, I think it's a fun exercise, and I think based on the results that Sprout is probably a bit fitter? Hope we get to see them race a bunch more in HS and I wish them both the best in HS and going forward, I've just never seen a runner dominate like Sprout at such a young age. Maybe Young could also run 8:35 or lower--would not shock me.
To the guy that asked if I have "real results" to back up the idea that drafting helps by 5-8 seconds over 8 laps--I think that's a bit of a dumb question,. The science is what the science is. Posing what-ifs about 40 year old solo performances and asking if I'm arguing the person could have ran XX:XX if drafting since they ran XX when running solo, who knows man, there are a ton of elements that go into any specific race. But there can't be an honest dispute that drafting does aid a runner, period.