talk to me when you're doing 60x400
talk to me when you're doing 60x400
some kid out in DE wrote:
We have conference meet coming up in a couple of weeks and our coach is wanting us to do a 20x200 workout this thursday. Is this a good speed building workout? I've never had to do so many 200s especially much faster than my mile race pace. Seems like a worthless workout to me.
10 minute warmup
20 minute tempo (no pace, just hard effort but not close to going all out)
20x200 @32s (my mile PR is 4:38) - rest is just jogging across the infield back to the start line and then immediately doing the next 200
10 minute cooldown
dude with all due respect I did 20 x 200m hill repeats frequently when I was competing and I was an 800m runner (as well as running 1500/mile infrequently).
It's not a speed building workout it's a speed endurance workout and honestly it shouldn't be difficult even as a 4.38 miler @32 per 200.
Tristate wrote:
OP
Are you under 30 years of age?
If so, knock the workout out, and shut up
It's not hard for anyone who is under 40.
This
405miler wrote:
Dave Moorcroft World Record Holder for 5,000 meters, would do 40x200 at 30 sec or faster. Then he was a world class distance runner. So don't think 20 is too insane, just depends on how much recovery time before your race.
That is not a Dave Moorcroft type of workout.
No? In highschool, 200's were our bread and butter workout as 800/1600 runners. We started off at like 8x200 @ 800 pace, then gradually moved up to 20 by the end of the year.
We did them a little differently though. For me it was:
4x5x200 @ 800 pace (28-30)
1 min rest/rep
3-4 min rest/set
Ran 1:55 and 49 that year.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
One of Ron Clarke's favorite workouts was 20 laps of sprinting the straightaways and jogging the turns. Sounds pretty similar.
Henry Rono once pounded AS in Oregon by doing that. The crowd weren't happy of course, but it was just another day at the office for Henry
As for 20 X 200. Its a comfortable workout I used to do in flats at around 22 - 23 seconds. Walk between. Its a rhythm work out for a long sprinter
Runningart2004 wrote:
some kid out in DE wrote:
We have conference meet coming up in a couple of weeks and our coach is wanting us to do a 20x200 workout this thursday. Is this a good speed building workout? I've never had to do so many 200s especially much faster than my mile race pace. Seems like a worthless workout to me.
10 minute warmup
20 minute tempo (no pace, just hard effort but not close to going all out)
20x200 @32s (my mile PR is 4:38) - rest is just jogging across the infield back to the start line and then immediately doing the next 200
10 minute cooldown
I’ve done something similar a long time ago. 32 x 200m with a 1:00 standing rest, 400m jog every 8. I remember :31-33. I ran 4:28/9:32 that season.
Alan
Hey Alan: I did the same workout--32 X (220, jog). No rest for 8 miles (32 laps). Did them in :32. I ran a 4:26 full mile and 9:22 for the 2-Mile that year. It was yards--1600M/3200 had not been implemented yet.
Our coach also had us do 20 X 440 in 68 seconds. I think it was 440, 220 Jog (times 20). Both were Killers. Made men out of us.
Good Post.
This is a great thread and some very good feedback.
Brings back fond memories for a painful workout we did in high school that was very similar. Coach called it the four minute mile workout and enjoyed labeling it "short and sweet."
Warm up, then 20 - 220's at one minute intervals. You tried to run them at 30 seconds but everybody got back on the line for the next 220 one minute after you started the last 220. So 8 minutes work out and we added up our splits. We had a strong team but only a few could break 4 minutes as I recall. It's a great workout for developing leg speed and getting out of your comfort zone.
Our coach afterwards would then remind us that Jim Ryun at our age ran all 8 faster than us and with no rest. Put things in prospective!
Saw my high school coach last year before our 40th high school reunion (!) and caught up. The four minute mile was one of our discussions!
Stating the obvious wrote:
Warm up, then 20 - 220's at one minute intervals. You tried to run them at 30 seconds but everybody got back on the line for the next 220 one minute after you started the last 220.
Actually they were done with 30 second intervals, and one minute departures,
Basically what "notafatty" said:
I think your coach may be spot on. I am 62 yo and doing some shorter mile (up to 5K) speed workouts this Spring.
On Monday I did 16 x 200 with 1/2 distance recovery at 1-2 seconds under desired (target) race pace. Yesterday 8x400m long hills with up to a 9% grade. Then on Saturday a race in which I plan to kick some a**.
As for the mileage? 50 does not sound totally unreasonable but maybe a little high. I am averaging 50 mpw without too much problem, but I have a lot of time and can schedule my workouts when they suit me and the weather.
If a 62 year old can handle this you certainly should be able to do so.
Bottomline, if you are not getting injured - trust your coach.
Buck up - and run hard - Good luck on the rest of your season!
Did this quite frequently, over the years, included-
In my mid 50s, 20x200m with 200m jog in 1 min - pace around 36/37 - faster than mile, but slower than 800m
and younger days
20x200 with 100m jog in around 75 sec in 30/31
and (as a different session)
2x10 x 200m with about 45 sec jog across infield - 1 lap between sets 29/30ish - close to 800m. This was a hard one.
Did a lot of things 10x200m in 27 down to 25 with 200m jog (faster than 800m pace).
I think the session is reasonable, but I would have though you would have been better at around 34 sec. I was in my 20s when I was doing the fastest versions of those sessions, and was a much better runner of reps than I could race, so I think it's the pace that's making this a tough session.
round and round wrote:
Yeah, that is a big workout, especially the 200's at 32 seconds for you. Maybe if they were 34-35 secs each, but 20 is probably too many. you only need 8-12
In college we did a 25 x 200m workout to see how many you could do before complete lactic acid build-up happened. The goal was to go as far as we could to test lactate build up because a few weeks earlier we'd done the VO2 max treadmill test and fast twitch-slow-twitch muscle biopsy tests.
25 x 200m, 30 second standing (hand on knees, almost vom) rest.
Goal was to do each one in 30 seconds
I think I hit 20 or 21 of them in 29-5 30.5 range and then my 22nd I did 31.5 and my coach said I was done. It was terribly painful, the most i've ever been wrecked after a workout. took a week to recovery, just easy running.
I ran 1:51 in the 800m and a 4:06 mile that season.
sounds about right.
30 seconds rest if brutal.
jog across infield in 45 seconds is slightly more humane.
you can get used to this workout though.
from a physical point of view, it's a fantastic short cut to fast times, provided you recover.
and from a mental point of view, it's fantastic workout, you achieve pain and go harder than you thought possible.
from the negative standpoint, long term, too many of these workouts will end your career.
and if you don't recover, you don't get the short term gains.
if you are an animal, you will do fine on a one off.
i say go for it, pussies finish last anyhow.
so do the workout.
do 10 in coaches time or like 33, and drift down to 34's.
something like that.
still run your ass off.
it'll be good, even if it's bad.
longjack wrote:
so do the workout.
do 10 in coaches time or like 33, and drift down to 34's.
something like that.
still run your ass off.
it'll be good, even if it's bad.
“it’ll be good, even if it’s bad”
That’s amazing! My new mantra for running for sure
longjack wrote:
30 seconds rest if brutal.
jog across infield in 45 seconds is slightly more humane.
Actually, 30 seconds rest is much easier.
Anytime you are "just hanging around at the end," it's called overtraining and you are getting the pH in the blood
too high as Lydiard talked about.
Remember that there is no end to stamina (i.e. Aerobic System) but there is a limit to running without air!
You do need to run multiple speeds in training, but always be careful how much you do. A good coach is
there to tell you when to back off. Unfortunately many coaches and runners still think "runners are made, not born."
That is not entirely true. Train hard, but train smart. Do it for many years, especially if you are one of those like me
who was not born with outstanding talent.
John L Parker wrote:
talk to me when you're doing 60x400
Do not listen to folks like this. LRC is full of marathoners many of whom have trouble breaking
4 hours. If you do not break 4 hours you must have walked some of the time you were out there.
These guys think that the harder and more they train the better they will be. Not true for most
individuals.
Most people are just running themselves into illness, injuries, staleness, or "accidents in training."
"Oh I would have broken 3 hours if I had not sprained my ankle a month before he 'thon."
Cry me a river.
NnNnNnNnNn wrote:
Anytime you are "just hanging around at the end," it's called overtraining and you are getting the pH in the blood
too high as Lydiard talked about.
Remember that there is no end to stamina (i.e. Aerobic System) but there is a limit to running without air!
You do need to run multiple speeds in training, but always be careful how much you do. A good coach is
there to tell you when to back off. Unfortunately many coaches and runners still think "runners are made, not born."
That is not entirely true. Train hard, but train smart. Do it for many years, especially if you are one of those like me
who was not born with outstanding talent.
we're talking one frickin workout. don't be a pvssy and scare the boy.
it takes constant abuse and stupidity to harm yourself,
like going too hard every day.
lydiard had 800m runners doing 22 miles.
snell used to skip distance days, and ramp up the speed on his own.
and people leave out lydiards hill work and bounding, which is real long sprinting work.
anyway, you should follow the coach for now. and if you get good, look at sebastian coe and al sal's training methods.
or canova here.
Oh really? ... try it and see wrote:
longjack wrote:
30 seconds rest if brutal.
jog across infield in 45 seconds is slightly more humane.
Actually, 30 seconds rest is much easier.
righf, like a 6 incher is easier to take than a 10 incher.
John L Parker wrote:
talk to me when you're doing 60x400
Well, I'll come close: Did a progressive 15.0 Miler on the track (60 laps) in 1:19:22 (5:17.5/mile) with 9:45 last 2-mile.