Bekele vs Jim Ryun in a mile

Bekele wins handsdown! How is this even a question lol

His 2k PR is faster than Jim Ryun mile time smh

Anoynomous J wrote:

Bekele wins handsdown! How is this even a question lol

His 2k PR is faster than Jim Ryun mile time smh

So everybody that has run faster than a champion of a previous generation is better than that champion - even if by the standards of their own era they are a nobody? Well, now that we've established you don't really follow the sport - if it was that simple comparisons could never be made between runners of different eras. The paradox is that as times get faster - for a whole variety of reasons, and not all of them good - runners aren't necessarily getting "better". To be the best in your era is as good as anyone can get.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Anoynomous J wrote:

Bekele wins handsdown! How is this even a question lol

His 2k PR is faster than Jim Ryun mile time smh

So everybody that has run faster than a champion of a previous generation is better than that champion - even if by the standards of their own era they are a nobody? Well, now that we've established you don't really follow the sport - if it was that simple comparisons could never be made between runners of different eras. The paradox is that as times get faster - for a whole variety of reasons, and not all of them good - runners aren't necessarily getting "better". To be the best in your era is as good as anyone can get.

9/10 great post. It will not take care of all the disrespectful younger people, but it will certainly make

them think. That is if they read what you wrote.

many took uppers ... wrote:

Jim Ryun wrote:

Not to mention if I had Bekele's drugs....

Ryun was as likely on PED's as anyone else. The pro athlete drug of the era in 1960's was amphetamines.

Ryun and Timmons? haha gimme a break. Try again.

Bekele. Easily.

HankAaron wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So everybody that has run faster than a champion of a previous generation is better than that champion - even if by the standards of their own era they are a nobody? Well, now that we've established you don't really follow the sport - if it was that simple comparisons could never be made between runners of different eras. The paradox is that as times get faster - for a whole variety of reasons, and not all of them good - runners aren't necessarily getting "better". To be the best in your era is as good as anyone can get.

9/10 great post. It will not take care of all the disrespectful younger people, but it will certainly make

them think. That is if they read what you wrote.

Read this; Ryun was never best of his era.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

He ran 21.5 220 in the sprint medley in hs and split 46.9 440y on a relay, according to his son, after a 3:55, as a freshman in college, and I think that was the day in which it was so muddy that they had grain elevator belts down for the jumps.

46.9y in mud equates to sub 46 open on mondo and on tired legs probably low 45 or high 44.

Hmmm! Are you sure you're not Ventolin?

Converting a 46.9 hand timed split in a relay from 50+ years ago without a complete video of the race, to being worth 44 high in an open race on mondo without tired legs is stretching belief a tad. Ryun ran many 440 splits on cinders and synthetic in his career, yet never ran faster than that 46.9 leg. Had the conditions been so dreadful and unconducive to a fast time, then why was he never able to beat that time before or after? And its not as if he didn't need to run any faster, as his team lost a lot of the races!

Here is a video of the mile and 4 x 440 that day.

The track was rolled before the mile, and for both races looks like any other dirt track with some marks on it. It certainly isn't flooded, 'a quagmire' or muddy! Where are the splattered spots of mud on their legs at the end of the races, which you used to see on competitors taking part at White City on a wet track?

Running a relay after a 3:56 mile shouldn't take too much out of an elite athlete of 19.

Coe ran most of his fastest 400 relay splits (45.5, 45.6 and 46.3 and 46.4 on dirt) within an hour or two of an 800m race.

A 46.9 HT split is probably more like 47.1 FAT. That's for 440yds, so we can safely state it would have been more like 46.8 for 400m. That is still with a rolling start, so we can then add about 0.7 sec for an open 400m, making it worth c. 47.5.

Converting from dirt to synthetic is difficult because there are many claims ranging from 0.5 secs to 1.0 per lap in a distance race. For 400m I would imagine the differential would be nearer to 0.5 sec. Even Epstein's claim of 1.5% is only 0.7 secs, but that was for competitors in a mile.

I would estimate that Ryun was capable of somewhere between 46.8 and 47.0 for an open 400m on a synthetic track that day. On a mondo track like Monaco in 2018, then perhaps 46.5 - 46.7. Which is a far cry from 44 high!

Nope wrote:

HankAaron wrote:

9/10 great post. It will not take care of all the disrespectful younger people, but it will certainly make

them think. That is if they read what you wrote.

Read this; Ryun was never best of his era.

World record holder for 880 yards, 1 mile (twice) and 1500m (all records that last till the mid-70's). They were also accomplished within a two year span from 1966-67, before he turned twenty. He was not pushed in any of those records and over that period he saw off the best of his competition convincingly (chiefly, Keino, whom he destroyed at the '67 Colisseum Relays). After mono in '68, he was never the same. So who was better than him when he was at his peak?

But are you saying Bekele was faster?

No! Of course not! I’ve already posted several times stating that peak Ryun from 67 would destroy Bekele in a mile race, however it was run.

I’ve always believed Ryun to be one of the most talented middle distance runners ever, certainly capable of 3:30 and 3:47 on synthetic tracks. I just don’t buy into the ludicrous suggestions put forward by the likes of Ventolin, that he was capable of 44 for 400, 1:38 for 800, etc!

Deanouk wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

But are you saying Bekele was faster?

No! Of course not! I’ve already posted several times stating that peak Ryun from 67 would destroy Bekele in a mile race, however it was run.

I’ve always believed Ryun to be one of the most talented middle distance runners ever, certainly capable of 3:30 and 3:47 on synthetic tracks. I just don’t buy into the ludicrous suggestions put forward by the likes of Ventolin, that he was capable of 44 for 400, 1:38 for 800, etc!

I would agree with both points.

PED's aside, Bekele's PB at a side event is nearly 1 second faster than Ryun's at his specialty. Bekele has also gone 3:33 or faster 3 times; Ryun's next best is 3:36.

Babble on forever about what you think Ryun could have done, but fair's fair; give Bekele as many races at 1500 and he goes much faster too. There's really no contest.

Next they'll be saying Herb Elliott would beat Haile G. Nope. The clock don't lie.

yesstiles wrote:

many took uppers ... wrote:

Ryun was as likely on PED's as anyone else. The pro athlete drug of the era in 1960's was amphetamines.

Ryun and Timmons? haha gimme a break. Try again.

Did I mention Timmons? No! Why do you believe Ryun did not take uppers? Is it because Ryun was a Christian conservative politician who voted tough on drug users/ tough on drug dealers? Do not be fooled by the theater/aura politicians and their staff create.

You rounded up. 10.06. 10.06 100m is still considered fast. We still have guys in 100m final in Olympics and W.C. sprinting slower than 10.06. You may truly believe Ovett was clean. You do not believe Coe was clean.

many took uppers ... wrote:

yesstiles wrote:

Ryun and Timmons? haha gimme a break. Try again.

Did I mention Timmons? No! Why do you believe Ryun did not take uppers? Is it because Ryun was a Christian conservative politician who voted tough on drug users/ tough on drug dealers? Do not be fooled by the theater/aura politicians and their staff create.

Reminds me of this news story:

Jim Ryun has a chance if he has pacemakers and a set time goal in mind.

Also give Jim Ryun a few million dollars for motivation, so he won't retire early.

If Jim Ryun was on a stimulant, then what makes you think Bekele was not on it too? It's ridiculous to say that only Jim Ryun and his generation benefited from the drug and then use that against him when making "adjusted" times. It's unfair to say "stimulant vs EPO", when it can be "stimulant vs stimulant+EPO".

All of you also have zero evidence that directly points to Jim Ryan's alleged drug use.

facts and reason wrote:

If Jim Ryun was on a stimulant, then what makes you think Bekele was not on it too? It's ridiculous to say that only Jim Ryun and his generation benefited from the drug and then use that against him when making "adjusted" times. It's unfair to say "stimulant vs EPO", when it can be "stimulant vs stimulant+EPO".

.

The only stimulants Bekele is on is nice ethiopian coffee.

Also, if you doubt PED use in the 60s. Tom Simpson died in 67 during a stage in the tour de France from amphetamines. And seven years before his death he said in a interview that amphetamines were a problem in cycling.

facts and reason wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhkjIrzTiEA

Jim Ryun has a chance if he has pacemakers and a set time goal in mind.

Also give Jim Ryun a few million dollars for motivation, so he won't retire early.

If Jim Ryun was on a stimulant, then what makes you think Bekele was not on it too? It's ridiculous to say that only Jim Ryun and his generation benefited from the drug and then use that against him when making "adjusted" times. It's unfair to say "stimulant vs EPO", when it can be "stimulant vs stimulant+EPO".

All of you also have zero evidence that directly points to Jim Ryan's alleged drug use.

It is a know fact that MLB and NFL athletes of 1960's and 1970's openly had stimulant tablets available. The pills were open and available. Sport reporters over age 70 know. It is too much to believe that stimulant pills were openly used by baseball players of that era but I am supposed to believe those same stimulants were not used in T&F.

Regarding Bekele, people have previously speculated. I have nothing to add.

Ryun because Bekeke DNFs about 30m from the finish.