Shady MS Entries in Ohio - do I say something?

You are all still missing one point. They aren't breaking "rules". They may have an advantage because they don't have to follow the rules other teams belonging to an association has to follow.

This is no different than NAIA compared to NCAA in college.

Now that the thread has just turned into personal attacks on the coach, I don't have any more to say about it since I don't know him and never heard of the school before this thread.

I noticed something similar in my state where kids I know who all run together on a club track team (USATF and AAU) showed up at a middle school championship running for a charter school I never heard of. One was running under a different name. Very very strange but I just let it go because they won’t get away with it in high school and it’s not the kids’ fault. They could have just run as a club team but couldn’t get relay awards. I don’t know what the parents of the kid running under the wrong name could be thinking.

So it’s strange the coach does that and even stranger to me the parents go along.

Just the facts.....not opinion wrote:

You are all still missing one point. They aren't breaking "rules". They may have an advantage because they don't have to follow the rules other teams belonging to an association has to follow.

This is no different than NAIA compared to NCAA in college.

Now that the thread has just turned into personal attacks on the coach, I don't have any more to say about it since I don't know him and never heard of the school before this thread.

They ARE breaking the rules of the invitational. These races are open ONLY to 7th and 8th graders. This school is registering 6th graders AS 7th graders to skirt this rule. If St. Michaels reached out to the race directors, they would be told "No you may not run 6th graders in this race".

Any current or past OHSAA officials know why the no 6th grade rule exists?

For most sports it is easier to have your 6th grader compete for the school and not a club team

You take coaching middle school girls cross country a little too seriously man. It's a jogging club to hopefully begin introducing some training fundamentals before things get crazy in high school. Who cares if a 20 year old shows up to smoke the girls, it will build their character. And they'll likely race 25 year old Kenyans and Mormons in college anyway

whydoesruleexist wrote:

Any current or past OHSAA officials know why the no 6th grade rule exists?

For most sports it is easier to have your 6th grader compete for the school and not a club team

I believe that most middle schools in Ohio are 7th and 8th grade only, while 6th graders attend elementary school (K-6).

ERS wrote:

You take coaching middle school girls cross country a little too seriously man. It's a jogging club to hopefully begin introducing some training fundamentals before things get crazy in high school. Who cares if a 20 year old shows up to smoke the girls, it will build their character. And they'll likely race 25 year old Kenyans and Mormons in college anyway

The team who cheats at middle school XC is the one taking the sport too seriously, NOT the coach/team following the rules. I have no problem with a 20 year old racing against my kid. I have a problem with that 20 year old lying about their age.

Just the facts.....not opinion wrote:

You are all still missing one point. They aren't breaking "rules". They may have an advantage because they don't have to follow the rules other teams belonging to an association has to follow.

This is no different than NAIA compared to NCAA in college.

Now that the thread has just turned into personal attacks on the coach, I don't have any more to say about it since I don't know him and never heard of the school before this thread.

They are at the very least lying about the grade of the runners, no?

ClosetotheEdge wrote:

whydoesruleexist wrote:

Any current or past OHSAA officials know why the no 6th grade rule exists?

For most sports it is easier to have your 6th grader compete for the school and not a club team

I believe that most middle schools in Ohio are 7th and 8th grade only, while 6th graders attend elementary school (K-6).

Wrongo. The vast majority of Middle Schools are 6-8. There are a few (very few in Ohio) Junior Highs which, around here, are 7-8. Some schools have sixth grade buildings exclusively and then Junior Highs, but only the big districts.

Nope Nope Nope wrote:

Wrongo. The vast majority of Middle Schools are 6-8. There are a few (very few in Ohio) Junior Highs which, around here, are 7-8. Some schools have sixth grade buildings exclusively and then Junior Highs, but only the big districts.

8. O

And yet, all the school sports programs are 7-8.

6th graders aren't even allowed to practice with them, much less race.

The issue here is that the rule has no reason for existence. Therefore, a coach may break the rule without feeling morally corrupt or unethical. Perhaps if OHSAA explained the reason for their rules their would be more compliance

Just to clarify, the scenario to which I was responding was 6th graders being entered as 7th graders, and so having three years of eligibility: the first season when they're too young to be entered officially, then two years when they're 7th and 8th graders. This, to me, doesn't seem like a big deal and I think it's unlikely that a lot of 6th graders are beating 8th graders who can claim they're the victims of unfair treatment. But yes, it's against the rules and the coach shouldn't do it. I posted this before anybody started talking about teams being entered made up of people who don't necessarily attend that school, etc. Now I'm curious, though. If 6th graders usually race in elementary school races, is the coach robbing these students of a chance to dominate that scene by having them run over their heads in middle school races?

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

It's a big deal to the 11 and 12 year-olds, though. They want to compete against their peers. If someone is cheating and winning, it takes opportunities to win away from those who are following the rules.

Er... wrote:

Okay, okay. I agree with you: lying is wrong, cheating is wrong. But I also agree with the guy above that it's not really a big deal that some 11 year olds raced some 12 year olds. So maybe shoot the coach an email and say, Hey, I noticed this and it looks strange. You might not want to do that again.

whydoesruleexist wrote:

The issue here is that the rule has no reason for existence. Therefore, a coach may break the rule without feeling morally corrupt or unethical. Perhaps if OHSAA explained the reason for their rules their would be more compliance

So basically if you don't agree with a rule, you break it?

I don’t since I’m pretty much a rule follower, but there are lots of examples of people not following rules, for the better, in history

Blowthewhistle? wrote:

[quote]ohio guy wrote:

To the previous poster who just wants me to stfu and move on

To those who care, I've decided on a simple email to the coach with a link to this thread.

I was the STFU poster. To be clear, I didn't suggest you move on, rather, do what a lot here have suggested and email their coach AND AD if they've got one.

I also said, let us know how it goes. So please do so!

Full disclosure, I know little about Ohio, besides flying over it, and zero about Ohio running or HS athletics. I have no connections to anything in the state.

whydoesruleexist wrote:

I don’t since I’m pretty much a rule follower, but there are lots of examples of people not following rules, for the better, in history

Sheesh I would expect more from a school with this mission statement:

YOUR CHILD IS INVITED TO ACHIEVE ACADEMIC AND MORAL EXCELLENCE AT ST. MICHAEL SCHOOL IN WORTHINGTON, OHIO.

whydoesruleexist wrote:

I don’t since I’m pretty much a rule follower, but there are lots of examples of people not following rules, for the better, in history

Yes, but St. Michaels is hiding the fact they are breaking the rules; not trying to raise awareness about a rule they feel is unfair.

It would be like Kathrine Switzer running the boston marathon dressed as a man to hide her identity.

Don't fault the kids, fault the coach, although kids play up in sports all the time, which is not nearly as bad as attempts to play down. If you wanted to push it, you could have all of their results from 6th grade tossed out (as that is when the violation took place) and the coach should be disciplined by the association. The kids should be allowed to compete as long as they are the proper age. It's also possible they were listed as the wrong grade by the people hosting the meet when they were in 6th grade as some middle schools have grades other than just 7th and 8th (the school my kids are in has 4th - 8th grade). If they are age cheating (have 9th grade age kids competing against 8th graders) then the kids should be banned. I ran into some age cheating this past weekend at a competitive girls soccer game that I was coaching (other team had one of the kids older sisters playing goalie and later at striker). I took pictures and reported it to the league and they had to forfeit the game.

I am in Ohio as well. My daughter who runs middle school cross country discovered that a local private Catholic school had 6th graders running on their team last year. She discovered it as the honor roll for the school was posted in the newspaper and she recognized a name as runner on the 6th grade honor roll. Turns out this girl is actually the cross country coach's kid. She is running as a 7th grader again this year for the 2nd year in a row. There was another 6th grade girl last year but she isn't running this year. It annoys me too that the rules are being broken. I have been told they have to follow OHSAA rules by people whose kids go to school there. This school had a girl win the state cross country championship in their division a few years ago.

I initially wanted something done about it too but have decided it isn't worth it. Our coaches said it is cheating but aren't inclined to do anything about . I don't want to be the one to report it because I am afraid somehow my kid would be targeted. Some people call it playing up but I don't think it is playing up when you have no eligibility to begin with. Others say it's just middle school sports so who cares but why break the rules. Your example is much more blatant than what we are dealing with in my area. The girl running as a 7th grade again is decently good. They did take 2 trophies away from my daughter's team last year by having her run. I am personally not all that upset about it but I am sure our kids would have liked to have gotten them.

The girls in your case seem to be very good. If they go to state in high school and win, I would think this could get scrutinized. It's on the coach.

Off topic -Up until 2 years ago, the school district I graduated from still had a junior high with 7th and 8th graders only. They now have a K-8 building.