HOULIHAN SHELBY with the AR in heusden

Jeff Wigand wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Plus, there is Gatlin

Gatlin was the Olympic gold medalist and world record holder in the 100 when USADA banned him for eight years, a ban that was taken down to four years by the CAS.

casual obsever wrote:

and Rupp

Doesn't USADA test Rupp more than any other track athlete?

casual obsever wrote:

and Jager, etc., and the accepted beef and kissing excuses

Why do you disagree with their rulings?

casual obsever wrote:

and USADA let Armstrong dope all his way to 7 TdF wins, despite positive tests and witnesses.

USADA was formed on October 1, 2000, after Armstrong had begun winning the TdF. USADA conducted an investigation and took down an American icon who raised millions of dollars for cancer research. If they will take down Armstrong, they will take down anyone.

casual obsever wrote:

We do not have robust anti-doping here. That's only part of the show, nothing else. Including the Armstrong saga.

It doesn't look like that.

Run007xx wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Gatlin was the Olympic gold medalist and world record holder in the 100 when USADA banned him for eight years, a ban that was taken down to four years by the CAS.

Doesn't USADA test Rupp more than any other track athlete?

Why do you disagree with their rulings?

USADA was formed on October 1, 2000, after Armstrong had begun winning the TdF. USADA conducted an investigation and took down an American icon who raised millions of dollars for cancer research. If they will take down Armstrong, they will take down anyone.

It doesn't look like that.

This. +10.

The only reason people have the impression that American's cheat is because the US ACTUALLY CATCHES AND BANS its own athletes. This is something most other counties' anti-doping agencies don't do. It's why the Kiprop thing is so suspicious... I think the Kenyan's only took down Kiprop because he was no longer willing to give them 50% of his earnings to buy his freedom.

casual obsever wrote:

Gatlin: ran as oldie the same times as during his best years, which were doped. A clear career doper who didn't get caught anymore after his ban.

Rupp: likely doping, elevated testo, forbidden method, and that's just what leaked. No action from USADA.

Armstrong: again, we knew of his doping since 1999. USADA didn't act before 2011, 11 years after its start, after the feds literally made their case. If you see that as an example how USADA works, i.e. only when they really have to, then it's obvious why almost no runner gets banned.

Why I disagree with the kissing and beef excuses? Well for one, USADA itself pretended to disagree with the kissing excuse, but couldn't get bothered to build a case.

As for the beef, that was accepted by USADA, without any evidence other than the athlete claiming to have receipts for beef. Here USADA chose to trust without even analyzing the beef. Sets a terrible precedent.

@testing: that does not mean an athlete is clean. That only means he/she cannot dope above certain threshold, what people here misleadingly call gray zone or microdosing.

Let me cite from a recent article in Sports Med. (1st issue in 2018):

"One [doper] in two athletes is a big number, and suggests that doping is truly endemic in elite sport."

You guys need to stop pretending that doping is rare.

crumpet wrote:

Farmer's only dot com wrote:

Nothing to see here.

if I was skeptical before. i'm mostly convinced now.

Of what?

Something you joggers should understand is that not all world records are equal. Not all events WRs are of the same standard.

The Men's 400 is a stronger than the Women's 400 record.

Women's distance is largely soft. Some ladies will get it, and then start to improve. Here's an example.

You guys picture yourself as pretty good runners. You really aren't. The improvement with these times is mainly a mental breakthrough rather than a physical one. Its why they can suddenly drop time.

Soon as an athlete learns to really embrace the pathway, they run faster. When they lose it, they get real slow.

You guys couldn't find the performance path with a GPS. You can see it from these forums. You think its all about miles and hours, and intervals and hills.

I love to laugh and laugh hard wrote:

Call it as you see it wrote:

I agree with you. It helps to understand how the anti-doping programs works before judging it. To help move the discussion along, here are some facts about how often the USADA tests T&F athletes:

1) Shelby Houlihan turned pro in the summer of 2015. In her first 2 1/2 years as a pro, USADA tested her 5x. Most of these appear to have been in-season. She was not tested at all in 2015, 2x in the summer of 2016, 2x in the spring of 2017 and 1x that fall. That's an average of 2x/year. That schedule doesn't leave much opportunity for out-of-competition testing.

2) Jenny Simpson turned pro in January, 2010. In her first 6 years as a pro, USADA tested her 17x. That is just under 3x/year. In 2010/11/12, they tested her 4x/year. In 2013/14/15, they tested her a total of 5x. Many of those were in season, which means she had long periods with no tests.

Houlihan and Simpson were fairly typical; over the last few years, athletes tested average 2 - 3 tests/year. Most athletes who are tested are not tested that often. For example, in 2014, 500 T&F athletes were tested. Of those 500, over 300 were only tested once; another 80 were tested 2x. In other words, of those tested, almost 80% were tested just once or twice. Of the rest, only handful -- less than 30 -- were tested more than 10x. Galen Rupp was tested the most -- 21x. Next most tested were Gatlin and Meb, at 15x, followed by such names as Lagat, Jeter, Ritz, Teg, Goucher, Richards-Ross, Reese, Flanagan & Cain.

(Again, many of these tests undoubtedly came during meets, meaning USADA had less opportunity of testing out-of-competition, when doping actually occurs.)

I will let you decide whether these numbers are big or small.

The entertainment on here is ridiculous, considering every male tennis player in the top 20 was tested some 20 times in 2017 and Houlihan was tested 3 times.

casual obsever wrote:

Gatlin: ran as oldie the same times as during his best years, which were doped. A clear career doper who didn't get caught anymore after his ban.

Rupp: likely doping, elevated testo, forbidden method, and that's just what leaked. No action from USADA.

Armstrong: again, we knew of his doping since 1999. USADA didn't act before 2011, 11 years after its start, after the feds literally made their case. If you see that as an example how USADA works, i.e. only when they really have to, then it's obvious why almost no runner gets banned.

Why I disagree with the kissing and beef excuses? Well for one, USADA itself pretended to disagree with the kissing excuse, but couldn't get bothered to build a case.

As for the beef, that was accepted by USADA, without any evidence other than the athlete claiming to have receipts for beef. Here USADA chose to trust without even analyzing the beef. Sets a terrible precedent.

@testing: that does not mean an athlete is clean. That only means he/she cannot dope above certain threshold, what people here misleadingly call gray zone or microdosing.

Let me cite from a recent article in Sports Med. (1st issue in 2018):

"One [doper] in two athletes is a big number, and suggests that doping is truly endemic in elite sport."

You guys need to stop pretending that doping is rare.