1500m WR is now 20 years old!

Coevett wrote:

The 'African advantage' is the result of EPO use. The phrase 'wrong physiology for running' comes from El K and other SJW racists here.

I think most people see You as the racist here, dear Coevett.

Coevett wrote:

Ngeny never fulfilled his doped up potential, which was likely greater than El Gs.

He took someone's 1,000m World Record.

Is that the reason you dislike him?

Or maybe because he is not white? Even worse, Kenyan!?

Nips and tatties wrote:

Coevett wrote:

The 'African advantage' is the result of EPO use. The phrase 'wrong physiology for running' comes from El K and other SJW racists here.

I think most people see You as the racist here, dear Coevett.

It doesn't really matter nips, you and others here like you are the racists who believe in huge genetic differences between black people and other races, not me. You need to worry about what message you're sending out to kids with that, as well as your condoning of African corruption and cheating.

Nips and tatties wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Ngeny never fulfilled his doped up potential, which was likely greater than El Gs.

He took someone's 1,000m World Record.

Is that the reason you dislike him?

Or maybe because he is not white? Even worse, Kenyan!?

No, I dislike him because he was an obvious doper.

Coevett wrote:

Nips and tatties wrote:

I think most people see You as the racist here, dear Coevett.

It doesn't really matter nips, you and others here like you are the racists who believe in huge genetic differences between black people and other races, not me. You need to worry about what message you're sending out to kids with that, as well as your condoning of African corruption and cheating.

I am not condoning any cheating, as you can read in the other thread.

Again you lie.

You will also be able to see that Coe and Ovett are two of my favourite runners ever.

Coevett wrote:

Nips and tatties wrote:

He took someone's 1,000m World Record.

Is that the reason you dislike him?

Or maybe because he is not white? Even worse, Kenyan!?

No, I dislike him because he was an obvious doper.

But when your favourites run faster than the obvious dopers they are not dopers, right?

I like and have followed Coe and Ovett as well as some Kenyan runners.

There are Kenyan dopers and there are British dopers.

You just seem to see one side of things.

According to an old Sports Illustrated article from 2000, El G was getting at least $50,000 for every race, as well as a Nike sponsorship deal and of course, favours from the King of Morocco. It mentions he was already (in 2000) a millionaire 'many times over'.

In 2001, presumably a typical year for El G, he ran 11 times. So he was probably earning close if not more than a million dollars each season, just through appearance fees. After 2004, as double Olympic champion, his appearance fees would be expected to rocket, as well as a new Nike sponsorship deal. He could easily have gone on for a couple more years at least at the top, or even another full Olympic cycle.

He ran 3:27 in 2004, and nobody else ran faster than 3:29 in the next four years, and only 3 ran 3:29. The Beijing final was won by doper Kiprop in 3:33 with Nick Willis getting the silver. El G would still only have been 33 in Beijing. He would surely still be capable of sub 3:30 if he could still run 3:27 just 4 years earlier.

It's hardly credible is it, that he simply decided to 'go out on top' after his Olympic successes in 2004, and that the introduction of EPO tests in 2005 had nothing to do with it? Retiring in 2004 probably cost him several milllions of dollars at least, not to mention rubber stamping his GOAT status. Instead he retired, knowing that there would always be a suspicion that he did so to avoid the EPO testing.

https://www.si.com/vault/2000/05/08/279810/desert-star-human-running-machine-hicham-el-guerrouj-world-record-holder-for-the-mile-and-the-1500-is-a-towering-figure-in-morocco-and-a-prohibitive-favorite-to-win-the-olympic-gold-medal

listen to the madness of Brendan Foster and Crammy coevett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vx0MxU9L0&feature=player_embedded

CERN-CERA/EPO you dope!!!

said88 wrote:

Like A Rocket wrote:

Bekele made the switch to CERN

To work there as a physicist? Already during his running career? Not bad.

Natural selection doesn’t play favorites wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Oh yeah, no African could get near it for years (apart from Chaouita) until EPO came around, but that only proves that Africans have superior genetics to 'wrong physiology' whites like Cram.

There’s nothing “wrong” about it. Evolution doesn’t care about human games and ideas. The African advantage is the result of balanced randomness.

There is no genetic advantage for Africans in the middle distances. In long distance, yes, but not the 800 and 1500m. These are the events where there is the most even playing field. Many, but not all, African successes in these events since the 90’s has been down to a much easier ability for East Africans to dope without robust testing. That advantage is finally being eroded thankfully, as Bosse winning in last year’s Worlds indicated.

Beavus wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vx0MxU9L0

Im just glad we had moments in our sport like this. It's all entertainment, so who cares how it is fueled.

It’s people with that attitude that has allowed the sport to be brought to its knees. Shame on you.

they like him wrote:

listen to the madness of Brendan Foster and Crammy coevett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8vx0MxU9L0&feature=player_embedded

There's no way that Brendan Foster, Steve Cram and Seb Coe, being the competitors that they were, would have been silent if they had the slightest suspicion of Hicham being on peds. Simlarly, none of the top guys from that era, have ever once slipped any suggestion that they suspected anybody else of doping.

Nips and tatties wrote:

Coevett wrote:

No, I dislike him because he was an obvious doper.

But when your favourites run faster than the obvious dopers they are not dopers, right?

I like and have followed Coe and Ovett as well as some Kenyan runners.

There are Kenyan dopers and there are British dopers.

You just seem to see one side of things.

I have to agree totally with Coevett on this one. There is a lot more evidence that Ngeny doped than the Brits of the 80’s.

For a start Ngeny beat El G , who was most certainly doped. The likelihood that the 3 fastest 1500/milers of all time happened to run in an era when EPO was undetectable, is highly unlikely.

Ngeny had an 800pb of 1:44 mid, yet could run that and another 200 on the end at the same pace!

He was part of the MacDonald/ Dieter Hogen stable that had some dubious history. Hogen was husband to Ute Pippig, the Marathon runner who was found with peds in her sample in the late 90’s. He was also a training partner and member is f same training group as Olaf Beyer and Juergen Straub back in the day; the former listed on Stasi files as part as f state sponsored doping programme.

There have been countless rumours that Ngeny failed a drug test for EPO at the Sydney Olympics in 2000, but was let off for fear of what such a ban would create. Of course I have never seen concrete evidence of this, but his last minute scratch from Kenya’s World Champs team in 2001 at the 11th hour and the subsequent car accident, that stopped him from training fully, although not enough to stop him running 3:33!?, does fit in with the possibility that he was warned about the doping violation but failed to stop doping.

I can’t think of a scenario where a serious injury can stop you running 3:28/3:43 in future, but is t bad enough to run a 3:33. His meteoric rise and then equally sudden decline and subsequent retirement is quite reminiscent of Komen. Again, this doesn’t represent proof, but there is certainly quite a bit of circumstantial evidence to make him more likely to have doped in comparison with Coe and Ovett.

Lots of talk of Coe and Conconi connection and blood doping back in 1980-1984

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25908

kdjk wrote:

Lots of talk of Coe and Conconi connection and blood doping back in 1980-1984

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=25908

I have no doubt in my mind Coe blood doped (see his rare blood diseases he got). He was as dirty as the Finnish runners of the 70s/80s and Saïd Aouita.

Coevett wrote:

The only good thing about that WR is it had Ovett commentating on it live.

The Kenyan pacemakers only dropped out after 1400m. Back then, even pacemakers could go for 1400m at 3:26 pace.

Even if El G was clean, none of his times would have been possible without doped up training partners and pacemakers.

He was as clean as Ovette and Coe, whom both sucked compared to the great El G. That’s your reality pal, swallow it.

Coevett wrote:

no, not 300 wrote:

no, he passed PM with 350 to go. stop lying

Closer to 300 than 350. Maybe your vision is obscured by the EPO fumes coming out of El G's ass?

And you trolls stop lying about this being the 20th anniversary of the 1500m WR. The third anniversary of Nick Willis running 3:29.66 - shaving just 1/100th off of Crammy's mark that had stood for 30 years - takes place on Tuesday.

* Is it so hard to believe that a 1985 record would be improved by 1.6% today? It's happened in countless other running events - records that few of you would question.

* B Lagat ran 3:26.34. Was he doping then? How is he able to run the times he does now, times of a man with 3:26 1500m ability, in today's more secure regime?

* Where are all the other doped-up runners, supposedly able to run similar times? That's not proof in itself, but certainly evidence El G was head and shoulders above his peers.

And that last comment... just screams white fragility... Ugh.

Like a Rocket wrote:

CERN-CERA/EPO you dope!!!

said88 wrote:

To work there as a physicist? Already during his running career? Not bad.

KB was certainly on CERA for awhile.

Is it too hard for you to grasp that so many of El Guerrouj's training group have been busted yet the best athlete "is perfectly." Good gosh get a life. Look at flying pig.