If Lagat breaks Scott's American record should it be marked with an asterisk?

So having The Terminator be Governor of California is OK, but heaven forbid that Bernard Lagat should hold an AR.

Nice guy, always speaks well of others, worked his ass off to become one of the best in the world at what he does, and has CHOSEN to become as US citizen rather than just having it fall in his lap. I'd certainly be happy to have a guy like Lagat as my neighbor.

I can understand why people are annoyed about the whole Qatar/Bahrain thing, but this is not a case of a country 'buying' athletes. It's a person making a choice about his life. What is the big deal?

??? wrote:

Stop your pc bastardization of the english language.

You keep harping on this. What is it that you think he is doing to "your language"?

"I think you should only be awarded the AR if you have lived in the country since you were 18 "

Hasn't Lagat pretty much lived here/trained here since college? He did go to WSU didn't he?

Alan

you think that might be why the distinction was made at that age?

I'm white.

I still don't see the point in the racist argument. if borzakovisky became an american, i'd still be saying he shouldn't have the 800 record.

go ahead and keep portraying me as a racist. it's an easy way out of this argument. there are many valid arguments on the topic of CITIZENSHIP for why lagat should have the AR, i'll admit (i just don't agree with them). but saying that detractors are bigoted, racist, or elitist is a feeble minded argument, and you're not considering the issue i'm raising of AR's being set by ppl from teh American system. I don't care what lagat ran at WSU. i don't consider the college system "American" because there are so many foreigners in it. however, i LOVE the fact that foreigners decide to come run for american colleges bc it makes the ncaa so much more competitive. i just dont think you should hold an AR unless you've lived here since you're 18, because I think the AR should be representative of the American system.

keep the argument to CITIZENSHIP and i'll continue the discussion. i'm not going to answer questions on my being racist or bigoted because that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Interesting that he doesn't deny being a racist.

nope. they should run in american high school at least one year.

i figured you all would figure from my post that i'm not

ok then, what's racist about my argument? tell me specifically. where am i discriminating based on race?

The american records should be read as "AMERICAN BORN RECORDS"

I am white too, I was just curious.

I think your arguement should be with the US not with the USATF on if he should get the AR. If he is American I think he should get the AR. But if he is not allowed to become American (too late) then he wouldn't be able to get the AR. Do you think he should be allowed to become American but not get the American Record?

It's just strange that you don't hear all the whining about Colleen DeRuck getting the Masters records. Should there be an astricks?

Maybe it's just because I'm a Canadian, but this seems like an extraordinarily simple issue.

They're called "American Records", right? (Nod your head to the obvious fact.)

Lagat is an "American," right? (Nod your head to the law, even if you don't like it.)

Well, look at that. We're done here. Maybe if people like you had lobbied harded to keep Lagat from becoming American, you wouldn't be in this spot, but you are: without a leg to stand on.

If you want to keep "American Born records," or "two-generations-in-America records," or "never left America records," go right ahead.

BA wrote:

nope. they should run in american high school at least one year.

Hahaha! I know lots of American kids who went to school in Canada for grades 10-12. I doubt they'll be breaking any records, at least not this season, but please don't tell them they're not full-fledged Americans. They certainly seem to think so.

BA wrote:

they should run in american high school at least one year.

Because US high schools are so much more what the 'US system' comprises of than the NCAA scene? Just how many current US stars were developed by the US high school system? How many were decent coming out of high school and then became stars after university?

Should David Morris have his former marathon record removed because he was living in Japan for a few years? Sounds like he was developed by the non-American NCAA and the Japanese corparate systems. Definitely not American record worthy material according to your logic.

obviously i realize that lagat will hold the AR because he is an american. he has every right to become an american, and he will therefore hold the AR. it just bothers me that steve scott's legacy will be tarnished by a guy who just switched countries. i mean, steve scott ran a freakin 3:47 mile 23 freakin years ago. no one's come close to that since then. i hate seeing it disappear because bernard lagat, a guy who changed citizenship before last year's olympics but for some reason didn't feel the need to be a real american and run for his new country. is that a guy we want running for the usa and holding our records? screw that. if he doesn't want to run for his new country in the olympics, then i don't want him holding our records. i understand he probably wouldn't have been allowed to run in athens for the us under oly rules, but its the point of the thing that bothers me.

chuck d wrote:

state actors cannot discriminate against individuals based on national origin.

Yes they can, and they do. Ever hear of affirmative action?

BA wrote:

i hate seeing it disappear because bernard lagat, a guy who changed citizenship before last year's olympics but for some reason didn't feel the need to be a real american and run for his new country.

As you pointed out later, there was no way at all he could have run for the US in Athens due to international rules and regs. So why bring this up? Looks like you are grasping at straws and throwing out red herrings.

Have a look at the regular IAAF releases announcing changes of allegiances. Athletes all the time are getting new citizenships or already holding dual citizenry and switching which country they want to represent.

Does KK, who developed from a 13:mid guy into a multi-world record holder in the marathon solely in the US not merit a NR because he didn't attend one year of US high school? Is someone who choose to further their life by coming to the US and setting down roots over several years the kind of guy you want running for the USA and holding your records?

ok i'm completely confused by the first few sentences of your post, but here goes. yes, i do think US high schools are much more representative of the US system than the NCAA system when Arkansas is dominated by Africans, Michigan has Canadians and New Zealanders, and Providence's team is filled with Irish runners. the NCAA is international, which is a great thing, but it's not as representative of the american system as high school is.

second, why does it matter how many "stars" were developed by the US high school system? of course none. why does that matter in this argument?

if dave morris grew up in america and/or attended american high school, then he should have the record. bob kennedy is an american even though he trained in kenya for a short time. OF COURSE THEY'RE STILL AMERICANS.

i created the one year of hs rule because i think a guy like shadrack biwott should be considered american.

i don't need to "grasp straws and throw out red herrings" or whatever you said to make my argument clear. i think this argument makes sense and a lot of people agree with it but they don't want to be labeled "racist" by a society that is so trigger happy with that term.

also, i understand that "Athletes all the time are getting new citizenships or already holding dual citizenry and switching which country they want to represent." so what? i realize lagat isn't hte first runner to change countries. no shit. doesn't change my argument.

nope, KK shouldn't have the record either. training himself or just having an american coach doesn't make you a product of the american system.

but that makes me a "racist" to most people...