Asbel Kiprop speaks to BBC: "The truth will come out and it will clear my name." Calls for dopers to be jailed.

Ghost1 wrote:

If Kiprop is found guilty of the charges, the sport of running will never be the same again in the Rift Valley.

If that's the case will Kiprop be forced to leave the country?

Ok maybe I was too kind. Here you are just making excuse upon excuse and making up facts.

It is one thing to state that Asbel was blackmailed by the testers, that's an unlikely but possible scenario but I'll grant that as plausible. He hasn't himself stated that's what happened in his line of defence. But if you want to speak for him then ok, it is a scenario that is possible.

You cannot, however, also take the stance that the EPO test is inaccurate at the same time. These are two different lines of defence and are mutually exclusive. So by stating both, you are simply making up any scenario where Kiprop could be clean. You might as well put in another argument that Kiprop did take EPO but EPO doesn't work and so he should be let off. The test for EPO is very reliable and supported in many medical journals as such. Kiprop would have been tested in the same lab as thousands of athletes around the world who didn't test positive for EPO.

You cannot state that psychologists upon watching the interview will determine that Kiprop is not lying. That's frankly idiotic. You are projecting your own feelings onto the entire human population. You don't think he's lying and that is all.

Your argument as a whole is just nonsense. It is born from the fact that you don't feel that Kiprop is the type of person to take PEDs. Unfortunately you are wrong. We can never know what is truly in the heart of a person. Everyone has their secrets.

There are many clean Kenyan runners, but Kiprop isn't one of them. Why don't you instead just support Manangoi and Cheryiout? World and Commonwealth champions.

Another One Bites The Dust wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

If Kiprop is found guilty of the charges, the sport of running will never be the same again in the Rift Valley.

If that's the case will Kiprop be forced to leave the country?

There are many countries which will welcome Asbel with open arms, but sincerely hope that he will be vindicated and the charges dropped.

In that BBC interview, one can see tears welling up in the genial ectomorph's eyes, and the face of an innocent child. Heart breaking.

Also he says the testers tampered with his sample when he went out of the room and paid the money using his phone in another room. Surely they didn't know if he was to pay them an adequate amount - therefore not needing to tamper with his sample...

Ghost1 wrote:

Another One Bites The Dust wrote:

If that's the case will Kiprop be forced to leave the country?

There are many countries which will welcome Asbel with open arms, but sincerely hope that he will be vindicated and the charges dropped.

In that BBC interview, one can see tears welling up in the genial ectomorph's eyes, and the face of an innocent child. Heart breaking.

Yes, like a child who's feeling guilty about being caught red handed.

Children cry in those circumstances too.

Quote -"There are many clean Kenyan runners, but Kiprop isn't one of them. Why don't you instead just support Manangoi and Cheryiout? World and Commonwealth champions."

But excuses or not, we should wait until the whole case is over, before concluding that A.K. is guilty, 'beyond reasonable doubt.'

Whatever happens, the case is a tragic one, because even if the hip hop dancing senior policeman is found 'not guilty' his name has been damaged, and his life damaged, to a certain extent.

Ghost1 wrote:

Quote -"There are many clean Kenyan runners, but Kiprop isn't one of them. Why don't you instead just support Manangoi and Cheryiout? World and Commonwealth champions."

But excuses or not, we should wait until the whole case is over, before concluding that A.K. is guilty, 'beyond reasonable doubt.'

Whatever happens, the case is a tragic one, because even if the hip hop dancing senior policeman is found 'not guilty' his name has been damaged, and his life damaged, to a certain extent.

In reality, he's just another serial liar and cheater who's finally getting his comeuppance.

Not tragic for me, boot out the dirtbag along with the rest of the cheats.

I wonder how many people on here have the capacity to understand what ElKeniano is saying here - he is responding with real class despite the sickening ignorance and condescension being shown to his entire culture. People are so quick to jump on anyone who even seemed to defend Kiprop, but he deserves at bare minimum a modicum of respect from you people, even if you disagree with/don't understand his initial response. To address the Kiprop situation, of course people are entitled to be skeptical - there are some d@mn good reasons to be. I didn't know about Fancy Bears, but even if the IAAF may have known, certainly it seems like Nick Willis had his suspicions - between what Centrowitz said he told him in Rio (glad that Makloufi got a medal instead of Kiprop) and what Willis himself said (about Kiprop cheating one of his own countrymen out of a chance), reading between the lines it really seems Willis believes Kiprop cheated. I hope he didn't - but if he, the fact is that he would be a greater loss to the sport than Willis himself, Centrowitz, or Rupp - don't get me wrong, cheaters of any kind diminish themselves as much as the sport, but his stature was beyond theirs by far - but I can't help but think that the reaction to Kiprop (much like to Semenya) is driven by the fact that they are African. I cannot imagine a similar reaction if it was Rupp, for example, being accused of this - and I say this despite the criticism he has received here - there simply wouldn't be a thread started on the same premise that Coevett's distorted view of the sport and race started, or the reactions here. And I think that speaks volumes. I also agree with what ElKeniano said about Ghost, a good guy who has tried to contribute a lot in the past, and been frequently abused - for nothing more than people not liking the way he wrote about things. As he says, Ghost has been around, seen a lot, immersed himself in various aspects of running. You may not agree with his position at times, but based on the experience he has had, he is entitled to believe the best about the sheer talent that he has seen in Africa - I think anyone who is a genuine fan of sport would WANT to do the same - but I wonder where these people are, when I see the boards dominated with vitriol from the bilge-inhabiting racists like Coevett, Utah, trollism and such. Free board, I know, but that fact that people like that are allowed to post here, well that just typifies the high-and-mighty whiteness that this place has been reduced to - you see the same $h!te on Fox News and Breitbart, from the same $h!te people. BTW, I appreciate the equal opportunity skeptic who covered the whole range of excuses (you may have missed a couple - some temporarily terrible cases of asthma brought on by the pollen count in Oregon, doing a few test rubs of some creams, as a safegaurd against someone getting sabotaged or accidentally trip the system, developing a real taste for a certain beverage that somehow also contained a certain fat-burner, and being so genuinely concerned about some low T that could have adversely affected health, but conveniently having a buddy on the payroll who can get some TSH...did I miss any?) - but that's not the same...

El Keniano wrote:

Ghost has never failed to support African dopers on this site. He always resorts to "nice devout boy!" as if he knew the individual personally and sits next to him in church/mosque. Quite a schtick he has been consistent with going on a decade now.

Between him, rekrunner and Canova, there will always be dope deniers/apologists hitting every thread concerning the issue. If that is not trolling, it comes close enough.

Yes, Ghost1 isn't an unlikeable person but he has long defended the least believable performances out there. 3:26 smacks of bathtubs full of hot sauce, and again he was caught for 'Recombinant epo.' His story doesn't add up. Thanks to Fancy Bears it appears that the IAAF secretly knew he was doping for quite some time.[/quote]

+1

Spot on![/quote]

The difference is Ghost has been to, and spent time in, the Rift Valley studying running culture in places like Eldoret and Iten, unlike 99% of the armchair experts here whose depth of knowledge of Kenya is sourced mainly from tabloid newspaper reports they read on the internet. I, an actual Kenyan, get lectured on a daily basis about my own country and culture by dozens of people who've never set foot here. Seriously, that takes a special kind of gall which, in my opinion, is not that far removed from mental illness.[/quote]

seoulpurpose wrote:

I wonder how many people on here have the capacity to understand what ElKeniano is saying here - he is responding with real class despite the sickening ignorance and condescension being shown to his entire culture. People are so quick to jump on anyone who even seemed to defend Kiprop, but he deserves at bare minimum a modicum of respect from you people, even if you disagree with/don't understand his initial response.

To address the Kiprop situation, of course people are entitled to be skeptical - there are some d@mn good reasons to be.

Out of all the reasons you missed the big one, he tested positive for EPO. That's quite a good reason.

It's also the basis of Keniano's drivel which you seem suckered in by. (I'll humour you, I appreciate this is probably Kenny boy himself under the latest of his fake names when he feels he needs to be controversial or some backup)

Kiprop got caught red handed, there's very little hope of a decent defence against that, so the whole 'you whiteys have no clue about Kenya so therefore you're all wrong' is the only thing he's got left. It's not an argument, he's not even culturally offended, he's simply putting his hands over his ears and tearfully shouting 'Wrong wrong wrong' to anyone who says anything. Slightly Trumpesque if you ask me.

Quote

"Kiprop got caught red handed, there's very little hope of a decent defence against that, so the whole 'you whiteys have no clue about Kenya so therefore you're all wrong' is the only thing he's got left. It's not an argument, he's not even culturally offended, he's simply putting his hands over his ears and tearfully shouting 'Wrong wrong wrong' to anyone who says anything. Slightly Trumpesque if you ask me."

It was announced a few days ago that Kiprop had a statement to make, which will prove he did not offend.

We should wait for that, before burying the former champion.

The way people are jumping the gun here is just creating more damage, which may adversely affect the prosecuter's final judgement.

The ultra thin mega star deserves a fair trial before judgement is rendered.

Ghost1 wrote:

Quote

"Kiprop got caught red handed, there's very little hope of a decent defence against that, so the whole 'you whiteys have no clue about Kenya so therefore you're all wrong' is the only thing he's got left. It's not an argument, he's not even culturally offended, he's simply putting his hands over his ears and tearfully shouting 'Wrong wrong wrong' to anyone who says anything. Slightly Trumpesque if you ask me."

It was announced a few days ago that Kiprop had a statement to make, which will prove he did not offend.

We should wait for that, before burying the former champion.

The way people are jumping the gun here is just creating more damage, which may adversely affect the prosecuter's final judgement.

The ultra thin mega star deserves a fair trial before judgement is rendered.

Every filthy cheat has a 'statement to make' after they get caught. What's he gonna say, he had sex with a tube of toothpaste while eating a steak? We've heard it all before, every cheat has a stupid excuse when they get caught.

He tested positive for EPO, it has already concluded that the EPO didn't get there by tampering. All that matters now is the decision on how long they ban him for. There is no 'trial' in this situation.

Ghost1 wrote:

Whatever happens, the case is a tragic one, because even if the hip hop dancing senior policeman is found 'not guilty' his name has been damaged, and his life damaged, to a certain extent.

He's a policeman with a skinny build like that? I hope works a desk job or something - he might get hurt tangling the rough necks out on the streets.

Good post, EK. Good of you to educate DeanoUK, he needs it.

99.9% of posters here have spent no time in Africa and don’t understand what they’re talking about.

When I was in east Africa for work every middle-class person keep a roll of bills in the glove box for all of the random soft bribes that come up in a day:

“The manager is busy, sorry.” “Can you find him?”

“The form won’t be processed until next week.” “Can it be sped up?”

“Your car insurance is out of order.” “Can you take a closer look?”

Most of us westerners find Kiprop’s account of the cash transfer to be vet confusing, but it is not at all surprising if you know Kenya. It could be something as basic as them implying it was nice of them to come at a civil time, giving notice, and not bang his door at 6am. And there is a record he sent the money.

Maybe they wanted money for the “favor” of giving him advanced notice, and maybe he didn’t want their “favor” and didn’t give enough money.

Ghost1 wrote:

In that BBC interview, one can see tears welling up in the genial ectomorph's eyes, and the face of an innocent child. Heart breaking.

Awesome. Please keep them coming!

Why would they want any dough from him for giving advanced notice if he wasn't glowing in the first place? So, then they spike his urine with EPO? And what about his ABP being flagged as suspicious per the Fancy Bear hacked documented? I suppose someone tampered with that because he wasn't giving enough or any money?

Sounds like desperate words from a desperate man.

Kiprop a Cop? wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

Whatever happens, the case is a tragic one, because even if the hip hop dancing senior policeman is found 'not guilty' his name has been damaged, and his life damaged, to a certain extent.

He's a policeman with a skinny build like that? I hope works a desk job or something - he might get hurt tangling the rough necks out on the streets.

Most of the 'criminals' in Eldoret are also skinny and somewhat undernourished.

In addition, Kenyan lawmakers, like senior policeman Kiprop, do not hesitate to use their guns or batons when faced with recalcitrant highland citizens in contravention of local laws, such as proliferating 'bhang' use, a drug similar to marijuana.

Don't mess with the law in Kenya, lest you wish to spend years behind bars, before trial, because of huge backlog in the local law courts. Those with money pay lawyers, and have a huge advantage.

But overall, crime rates in Eldoret and Iten are relatively low compared with Nairobi and Mombasa.

Eldoret and Iten has agriculture, meaning everyone eats their three squares, albeit heavily focused on carbs, and deficient in protein, hence life expectancy around mid 60's.

Kiprop a Cop? wrote:

Ghost1 wrote:

Whatever happens, the case is a tragic one, because even if the hip hop dancing senior policeman is found 'not guilty' his name has been damaged, and his life damaged, to a certain extent.

He's a policeman with a skinny build like that? I hope works a desk job or something - he might get hurt tangling the rough necks out on the streets.

He doesn't do any policing.

A lot of countries 'employ' athletes in various government funded jobs as a sort of funding for their sporting activities.

It's just the same as the UK using lottery funding, etc. I guess one positive is that if things don't work out for the athletes, there is a chance to have something to fall back on.

Ghost1 wrote:

Another One Bites The Dust wrote:

If that's the case will Kiprop be forced to leave the country?

There are many countries which will welcome Asbel with open arms,

Morocco being one of them??

Asbel has plenty of money stashed away at Barclay's bank, bang in the center of Eldoret, in addition to being a civil servant-policeman, so he will have pension and government subsidized housing, if needed, but the issue here is that the lightly framed, occasional hip hop dancing ectomorph has had his name dragged through the mud, and his reputation damaged.

For the moment he cannot walk in the center of Eldoret with his head held high with that regal posture characteristic of his bearing.

Not sure about his future, other than it (his future) has already been irreversibly compromised, and that is tragic because he, of all the stars - was 'the man' -the hero for all the youth and people of the Rift Valley, and Kenya in general.

This is why we should await the outcome, as A.K. promises that he will be vindicated, legitimately.