The key here is he could have easily not provided a sample and been fine. Something is fishy and I bet he will be exonerated. Then all you haters can go back into your caves.
The key here is he could have easily not provided a sample and been fine. Something is fishy and I bet he will be exonerated. Then all you haters can go back into your caves.
I believe Kiprop is 'not guilty' - but this does not mean he is 'innocent' - however the normal protocols during the test were broken, and it seems Kiprop has proof through his smartphone payment, which the testers reportedly agreed to, which makes this whole narrative even more bizarre, but with all those alleged, by Kiprop, irregularities - the case against Asbel should be thrown out.
On another note, Asbel is a Kenyan policeman by profession, and it beggars belief that he would jeopardize his whole future and retirement, by using EPO as a training recovery tool, well into the off season.
Canova and brother Colm will both confirm that Asbel is probably the last person in the Rift Valley who would ever dope.
Let the legal machine do the necessary, and come up with a just decision for Asbel, the ectomorphic policeman.
My post was unrelated to Asbel’s case specifically.
I just wanted to share my experience and I hope that several other industry insiders will contribute as well, so that as accurate picture as possible could be painted about status of OOC testing in Kenya.
Then hopefully someone does the same for Ethiopia.
Flu meds and bribery caused it, surprised he didn't use the old standby...... Kissing ?
How exactly would a sample on the kitchen table be contaminated...
The official squirts in someone else's doped up piss and swishes it around? Or puts in a couple drops of EPO? Either way seems like something that would be difficult to get exactly right without either triggering an absurd result or leaving someone else's urine in the sample?
sbeefyk2 wrote:
The key here is he could have easily not provided a sample and been fine. Something is fishy and I bet he will be exonerated. Then all you haters can go back into your caves.
So you believe the 'Oooh, they want money or they'll make me test positive, I think I'll just leave this unsealed pot of piss on the table while I search for cash upstairs - nothing can possible go wrong there' line?
Why did they stitch him up before he brought the cash back? Why did he need more cash even after transferring some electronically.
It's the stuff of legends, and people are genuinely believing it. That's how desperate you apologists are for this not to be true.
The cheat tested positive, he's trying to get out of it. Boo hoo.
To be honest though, all a Kenyan has to say is 'It was a foreign conspiracy' and just about every dimwit in the country believes it.
YourMom.Com wrote:
How exactly would a sample on the kitchen table be contaminated...
The official squirts in someone else's doped up piss and swishes it around? Or puts in a couple drops of EPO? Either way seems like something that would be difficult to get exactly right without either triggering an absurd result or leaving someone else's urine in the sample?
That's the bit of the story I like the least. Leaving the room without the sample having been sealed is so stupid you pretty much deserve a ban and I really struggle to believe he is that dim. But remember Asbel, what was sealed is your responsibility and if the story is true and they did something to it then tough luck. Next time stay in the room until they seal it.
(of course if they have one of those special Russian bottle openers that's a new ball game).
Didn't like that bit wrote:
YourMom.Com wrote:
How exactly would a sample on the kitchen table be contaminated...
The official squirts in someone else's doped up piss and swishes it around? Or puts in a couple drops of EPO? Either way seems like something that would be difficult to get exactly right without either triggering an absurd result or leaving someone else's urine in the sample?
That's the bit of the story I like the least. Leaving the room without the sample having been sealed is so stupid you pretty much deserve a ban and I really struggle to believe he is that dim. But remember Asbel, what was sealed is your responsibility and if the story is true and they did something to it then tough luck. Next time stay in the room until they seal it.
(of course if they have one of those special Russian bottle openers that's a new ball game).
That's one of the parts of the story that people with basic critical thinking skills would describe as 'a lie'.
It's only there to lend credence to the main part of the 'story' that someone spiked his sample. He needs a way for this to happen. This is the very best he could do in a short amount of time.
YourMom.Com wrote:
How exactly would a sample on the kitchen table be contaminated...
The official squirts in someone else's doped up piss and swishes it around? Or puts in a couple drops of EPO? Either way seems like something that would be difficult to get exactly right without either triggering an absurd result or leaving someone else's urine in the sample?
CAS has ruled in favor of a cyclist who said their positive was the result of the lab doctor handling his sample after handling EPO...
Never doubt the absurdity of doping, doping excuses, and the people supposed to be above it all.
(Daryl Impey is the cyclist in quesiton.)
I believe Kiprop told a fairly accurate version of events. Which is why he came out with it so quickly. He omitted the fact that he doped though.
Here is how I see it going down:
Kiprop KNOWS the people from previous dealings (he said that himself). No reason for guys who were previously straight and narrow to all of a sudden turn on you unless they were never straight.
So I see it like — the guys knew he doped.
They called him the day before to make sure he would have the money.
He says yes come by.
When they get there, they ask for more money than agreed upon this time for whatever reason and Kiprop disagrees. Maybe an argument.
In fact, Kiprop probably told him that was all he had. In which they told him to go get whatever cash he had in the house — otherwise, they would have just asked him to wire more.
So, he gets the cash or says he doesn’t have any and they simply seal his actual sample.
So, he’s telling the truth about one thing: he tested positive because he didn’t pay enough money, but he was paying to erase dirt, not prevent dirt from being added.
FWIW: think of this way, what is more likely? A dirty testing agent goes rogue and shakes down innocent people for fear of spiking ? Or that he works with dopers and replaces samples.
Clearly, there would be 100s of whistleblowers if innocent people were getting shook down and they would all come to Kiprop’s defense now.
Clerk wrote:
CAS has ruled in favor of a cyclist who said their positive was the result of the lab doctor handling his sample after handling EPO...
Never doubt the absurdity of doping, doping excuses, and the people supposed to be above it all.
(Daryl Impey is the cyclist in quesiton.)
False, UCI did not appeal the ZA decision to CAS.
https://cyclingtips.com/2014/10/rocacorba-daily-336/Clerk wrote:
YourMom.Com wrote:
How exactly would a sample on the kitchen table be contaminated...
The official squirts in someone else's doped up piss and swishes it around? Or puts in a couple drops of EPO? Either way seems like something that would be difficult to get exactly right without either triggering an absurd result or leaving someone else's urine in the sample?
CAS has ruled in favor of a cyclist who said their positive was the result of the lab doctor handling his sample after handling EPO...
Never doubt the absurdity of doping, doping excuses, and the people supposed to be above it all.
(Daryl Impey is the cyclist in quesiton.)
Might want to re-read that story. It wasn't EPO and was nothing to do with a lab doctor.
It was a pharmacist that handled a gout medicine before handing Impey empty gel capsules.
It was shown that he did dispense that drug to the previous customer before the sale to Impey.
That's actually a believable story.
Basically, UCI took away the national fed's authority to hear cases, after this and a Czech fiasco.
Sort of like Canada/USA with Barber and Gil, accepting dopey stories.
Jsjsj wrote:
I believe Kiprop told a fairly accurate version of events. Which is why he came out with it so quickly. He omitted the fact that he doped though.
Here is how I see it going down:
Kiprop KNOWS the people from previous dealings (he said that himself). No reason for guys who were previously straight and narrow to all of a sudden turn on you unless they were never straight.
So I see it like — the guys knew he doped.
They called him the day before to make sure he would have the money.
He says yes come by.
When they get there, they ask for more money than agreed upon this time for whatever reason and Kiprop disagrees. Maybe an argument.
In fact, Kiprop probably told him that was all he had. In which they told him to go get whatever cash he had in the house — otherwise, they would have just asked him to wire more.
So, he gets the cash or says he doesn’t have any and they simply seal his actual sample.
So, he’s telling the truth about one thing: he tested positive because he didn’t pay enough money, but he was paying to erase dirt, not prevent dirt from being added.
FWIW: think of this way, what is more likely? A dirty testing agent goes rogue and shakes down innocent people for fear of spiking ? Or that he works with dopers and replaces samples.
Clearly, there would be 100s of whistleblowers if innocent people were getting shook down and they would all come to Kiprop’s defense now.
+1
The above quote is what I figure the "truer" story is.
I don't buy the story that people just ask to borrow money and it's customary to give it for no reason. In fact it would open himself up to further blackmail, as the testers could have simply accused him of trying to bribe them, and "here's the proof!"
I'd also like to know if EPO could be added to a sample and whether it would "look" the same as if it had been metabolized via injection. I get the feeling that spiking a urine sample to look like doping is not as simple as squirting some EPO in the container.
Keep in mind this isn’t a “quick” response. He (and his agent and manager) was notified in February, and has had 3 months to plot out how he was going to play this.
That was a potential blunder in this statement. It reveals that any “shock” he or the Rosas express is a lie.
How come these suspect PED claims are never simple, obfuscation seems to be the order of the day, y'know, the old 'bullshit baffles brains'.
Thanks for the clarifications. I did misunderstand the Impey case.
Burnsy wrote:
Keep in mind this isn’t a “quick” response. He (and his agent and manager) was notified in February, and has had 3 months to plot out how he was going to play this.
That was a potential blunder in this statement. It reveals that any “shock” he or the Rosas express is a lie.
You bave a point, especially Kiprop's refutation statement does not sound like his words, but rather a well crafted lawyer draft paper.
However, there were so many protocol irregularities, that Kiprop should be given the benefit of the doubt - verdict - 'not guilty'
Would lawyers/attorneys here chime in ?
Burnsy wrote:
Keep in mind this isn’t a “quick” response. He (and his agent and manager) was notified in February, and has had 3 months to plot out how he was going to play this.
That was a potential blunder in this statement. It reveals that any “shock” he or the Rosas express is a lie.
No, they had more like 8 months or so to plan it...
The whole thing is a giant psy-op.... iAAF was going to nab him, so they gave him an alternative... create a phony doping story, such as "EPO" at the end of training year (who'd do it then), layer on some "bribes" being taken by Kenyan officials (always a nice touch, greedy Africans), have the DCO "deliberately" break protocol to give an out on CAS appeal...... all thought-out contigencies (not sure how well they are thought out, but)
That's how the real doping under-ground works, cloak and dagger world.
Proposed timeline:
Aug 2017: Kiprop notified that he's not in Coe's favour (not enuff $$, Rosa image makes this 2x or 3x at least), so they are going nab him.
Sep 2017: "Action plan" concocted, rubber stamped by Coe/IAAF
Nov 2017: Plan into action, DCO (Kenya) breaks protocol with 24hr advance call (element #1, create a conflict)
Element #2, "asking for money", everyone knows how Kenya society works, so this doesn't seem odd, even with no monetary amount given. Kiprop can claim he thought (retro-spectively) it was a bribe game, that he was too naive to know how to play (rely on: black Kenyans are dumb)
#3rd element, leaves room allowing possibilities of "EPO" inserted by grumpy DCO officer(s), who doesn't even know how much money ($$) is being wired (relying on expectation of cash in envelopes
My take: the whole transfer company M-Pesa being inserted as a by-line is a new twist, don't know who thought of it (Rosa?). Makes the analysis climb to third level (2nd is too easy todays).
Kiprop says DCO officers felt "annoyance" maybe just about M-Pesa being used, rather than failsafe cash-in envelopes standard SOP operating procedure.
Feb 2018: Start the officialized notification scheme, plan to leak results within 3 months (B sample not yet tested), to create another smokescreen of dismay
The IAAF anti-doping ambassador line is pure comedy, yes, a PROVEN DOPER taking this! What to say about Paula R, in her "100% me" ambassador role, now?
May 2018: Leak to media (Kenya, Daily Mail), timed with post-marathon season and Doha IAAF inaugural. Questions about anonymity until proven will arise. Note: perhaps did not consider how much "leak" US politices currently subsists. Whole then, less believedable
Cops do this all the time on the road between Eldoret and Iten.
Official pulls you over. Asks for money.
You better have money on you, that's all I can say.
Doping officials better have a good answer for why there is an electronic record of payment on that date. Good on Kiprop for documentation (Mpesa and phone records)
Someone is going to jail.....
LESSON LEARNED.... Do not live and train in Kenya once you make it big. You are the goose who lays golden eggs and EVERYBODY wants one!