If you wear Nike Vaporfly 4% running shoes in races, you are cheating. Plain and Simple.

I was having a bad day, and this made me laugh. thank you.

Runsmith wrote:

another example wrote:

Read the whole thread. Spira was not banned; they used the old rule as a marketing gimmick. I don't guess it worked... are they even still in existence?

The exact rule regarding shoes is posted above. There's nothing specific about springs in the current rule.

Unfair assistance or advantage = springs

Springs = Spira shoes

What’s your point?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.highsnobiety.com/2017/05/11/nike-vaporfly-elite-breaking2-inspiration/%3fformat=amp

lollerama actually pulled the spring out of a Spira. Said it was weak like a Slinky, that you could totally flatten with a half can of soda. Marketing gimmick:

Most shoes have springs. If something pushes back after being compressed, it has spring properties. It's been discussed here many times before. Air bags and Nike Air are springs, foams are springs, some more than others. Plates are springs. It doesn't have to look like a coil spring or a leaf spring to be a spring.

I can't bring myself to wear the 4% shoes in a race.

If I were to run X seconds faster, it will always be in the back of my mind that it was the shoes. I don't want to run a PR because of the shoes. I want to feel like it was a combination of smart training and reaching the next level of physical development.

gfbhchfnhcfg wrote:

I can't bring myself to wear the 4% shoes in a race.

If I were to run X seconds faster, it will always be in the back of my mind that it was the shoes. I don't want to run a PR because of the shoes. I want to feel like it was a combination of smart training and reaching the next level of physical development.

I wonder if people think the same way after running PRs at BU.

gfbhchfnhcfg wrote:

I can't bring myself to wear the 4% shoes in a race.

If I were to run X seconds faster, it will always be in the back of my mind that it was the shoes. I don't want to run a PR because of the shoes. I want to feel like it was a combination of smart training and reaching the next level of physical development.

Just run barefoot so you don't have to wonder how much your shoes are helping.

and stick to cinder tracks. It'd be a shame to have something contribute to your success other than your own hard work and fifteen percent concentrated power of will.

You guys are missing the point. I've never run barefoot or on a cinder track. My current PRs were not set running barefoot or on a cinder track. I ran them on the roads in racing flats (Nike Streak). The next time I set a PR, it would be more meaningful (personally satisfying) if I can do it with the same shoe and not one that would theoretically give me an advantage.

When did you switch to the Nike Streak or have you worn that in every race you've ever run? If not, what were you PRs before you wore the Nike Streaks? Did you ever run any races in regular trainers? If you switched to the Nike streak or flats more generally and then ran a PR, was that still satisfying? Have you run all your road PRs on the same course? If you ran a PR on a track would that be less satisfying? Have you run any PRs on point to point courses? Did you check the wind measurements that day to make sure you weren't aided by the wind? Did you start and stop at the same elevation?

Foam can act as a spring, and science will continue to develop better foams.

The only way to level the playing field:

everyone runs barefoot.

/eot

heyyo wrote:

When did you switch to the Nike Streak or have you worn that in every race you've ever run? If not, what were you PRs before you wore the Nike Streaks? Did you ever run any races in regular trainers? If you switched to the Nike streak or flats more generally and then ran a PR, was that still satisfying? Have you run all your road PRs on the same course? If you ran a PR on a track would that be less satisfying? Have you run any PRs on point to point courses? Did you check the wind measurements that day to make sure you weren't aided by the wind? Did you start and stop at the same elevation?

I've always run in the Nike Streak for races. I've been running for 2 years. I've been improving steadily. I've never run a race on the track but that would obviously not be equivalent to a road 5K time. I'm comparing road to road. Same old courses in my neck of the woods. None of them are point to point or downhill and if I did run on a very windy day (tailwind) I'd be hesitant to count that as a PR. One other factor you didn't mention is the level of competition. Most of my PRs were set running solo (no drafting) and that is another variable you must consider.

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

You guys are missing the point. I've never run barefoot or on a cinder track. My current PRs were not set running barefoot or on a cinder track. I ran them on the roads in racing flats (Nike Streak). The next time I set a PR, it would be more meaningful (personally satisfying) if I can do it with the same shoe and not one that would theoretically give me an advantage.

No YOU'RE missing the point. Part of your success is due to wearing really nice racing shoes. Maybe you shouldn't wear really nice racing shoes if you want to be a purist. Think of how satisfying if you PR with bricks duct taped to your feet.

Level the playing field wrote:

Foam can act as a spring, and science will continue to develop better foams.

The only way to level the playing field:

everyone runs barefoot.

/eot

Every sport that requires gear is able to find the balance between "helps get the task done" and "helps get the task done too well." What is with these running absolutists? Even IAAF has these types of rules for running shoes (where spikes can be placed, length of spikes, number of spikes, shoe thickness for high jumpers, etc.). They don't just accept anything that can be strapped to the foot as an acceptable piece of gear in the name of progress.

You can argue that the VF isn't aiding enough to provide an unfair advantage if you want, but to say we all either have to go barefoot or accept everything is asinine. The team that invented the carbon fiber blades Pistorious wore goes and invents a shoe that looks the same and helps you jump 3 meters per step...we have to accept that or all go barefoot?

Ummm they're just shoes, bro.

Read carefully. I didn't say this shoe specifically should be banned. All I'm saying is that the all or nothing argument is a logical fallacy and not the "end of thread" mic drop some would like it to be. If they are "just shoes" and all shoes are equal then IAAF wouldn't already have rules and regulations in place on the types of acceptable shoes.

moist wrote:

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

You guys are missing the point. I've never run barefoot or on a cinder track. My current PRs were not set running barefoot or on a cinder track. I ran them on the roads in racing flats (Nike Streak). The next time I set a PR, it would be more meaningful (personally satisfying) if I can do it with the same shoe and not one that would theoretically give me an advantage.

No YOU'RE missing the point. Part of your success is due to wearing really nice racing shoes. Maybe you shouldn't wear really nice racing shoes if you want to be a purist. Think of how satisfying if you PR with bricks duct taped to your feet.

lol!

New Kid on the Block wrote:

shoe bro wrote:

Ummm they're just shoes, bro.

Read carefully. I didn't say this shoe specifically should be banned. All I'm saying is that the all or nothing argument is a logical fallacy and not the "end of thread" mic drop some would like it to be. If they are "just shoes" and all shoes are equal then IAAF wouldn't already have rules and regulations in place on the types of acceptable shoes.

Yeah, but they're just shoes, bro.

You're defining what's acceptable based on the IAAF rules and not on what's the most pure. That's fine and very reasonable. If The VF is allowed by the IAAF.

/eot

Thanks for implicitly admitting that you were trying to be deceptive by claiming that the difference between the VF and Adios was bigger than Adios vs. Streak. I will accept your tepid apology and reclassification as "very similar" as accurate enough.

Level the playing field wrote:

Foam can act as a spring, and science will continue to develop better foams.

The only way to level the playing field:

everyone runs barefoot.

/eot

At least let me wear those tire sandals like the Copper Canyon folks in Mexico. There's all kinds of crap on the roads around here.