Off the top of my head, a few post collegiate d3 sub 14 guys
Dan Held (also ran 2:10 thin)
Tom Morris
David Terronez (I think)
Off the top of my head, a few post collegiate d3 sub 14 guys
Dan Held (also ran 2:10 thin)
Tom Morris
David Terronez (I think)
342 1500. D1. Didn’t go to nationals, so I don’t say I went to nationals. Make sense?
D3 was the best thing outside of my wife and kids that ever happened to me. I didn't run in high school and walked on to my D3 team because I thought I had the right body type. Were I at a D1 school (there weren't many, if any, D1 state schools in NY at the time - maybe Buffalo), I would have never run because they wouldn't have let me walk on. Ended up with school records in the steeple, 5k and 10k, national runner up in the 10k (to Dan Maier - Ian Lamere before there was an Ian Lamere - who lapped me at the 4 mile mark at nationals), and I'm still running today as a pretty competitive masters runner. Plus it brought discipline, goal setting, long term planning and delayed gratification into my life, which I've been able to carry over into my professional life. Thank heavens for D3. I suspect others have similar stories.
Ran at a decent DIII school and was a middle of the pack runner myself. Neither my own success or our teams' success was predicated on meeting goals set by anyone other than ourselves. We ran to be our own best competitors by living well and training hard. I enjoyed every hard earned PR and every mile run. Never once did I cross the line in a PR race, or watch my teammates run awesome races and feel that we were unsuccessful because we weren't running up to a "DI standard". I felt success because I saw my teammates run faster and compete better. I felt success when we realized our potential as a team and as individuals on the track. I felt success when I watched teammates fully commit themselves to something and buy into a process. I do understand the value placed on things like status, accolades or being the fastest runner. I appreciate talented runners as much as the next die-hard running fan. However, I think these things are over valued by our sport and that these other attributes often go unnoticed. Anyone who really thinks D3 runners, or slower runners, might have a hard time feeling success because of their faster counterparts has an unfortunate disposition on this sport. I feel sorry for them!
Also, our cross country top 5 included to guys who transferred from D1 schools. By the end of my 4 years, neither could touch me in the 5000 or 10,000. I couldn't touch one in the steeple. He went sub 9 for a D3 national title. I think he would take that experience over the drudgery he felt at Penn.
And for the record, despite having two former D1 guys and the eventual D3 runner up in the 10,000, North Central still dominated our team at xc nationals (putting 5 scorers in the top 10 or 12, including first and second).
All of that is to say that those lines are awfully blurry on the micro level.
This is some seriously stupid college shyte. No one over 21 cares about this kind of thing. Professional accomplishments matter a million times more than where you went to school. I am a tenure track university professor. Nobody asks me where I went to school and I work in academia. People want to know what I'm publishing, awards, etc., not what campus I spent my time doing general ed and running at fifteen years ago.
How do D1 athletes fill knowing there are world class people that exist (most D1 are not world class)
How can D1 athletes feel successful knowing that D3 athletes are going to make 100 times more than the majority of them in a career?
I checked a ranking site. 43 of the top 50 colleges are Division 1. So they are better athletically and academically.
No reason for D3. The person that asked why then dining halls or departments. Those serve the entire population. The guy who said it changed his life. Excellent, but why should the general population fund your hobby. D1 is for serious athletes who have the time, talent and dedication to compete at a top tier. D3 is club level competition without the occasional outlier who could be 6 or 7 on D1. I am not trying to be mean but really with colleges being so insanely expensive why are they putting money in to non-competitive athletes rather then consolidating the talent. It is not HS anymore.
boooooooooooooze
allboutu wrote:
No reason for D3. The person that asked why then dining halls or departments. Those serve the entire population. The guy who said it changed his life. Excellent, but why should the general population fund your hobby. D1 is for serious athletes who have the time, talent and dedication to compete at a top tier. D3 is club level competition without the occasional outlier who could be 6 or 7 on D1. I am not trying to be mean but really with colleges being so insanely expensive why are they putting money in to non-competitive athletes rather then consolidating the talent. It is not HS anymore.
No law saying D3 has to have running.
Why do D1 teams that never finish top 10 at Nats need to exist? They aren't exactly adding anything of value to anyone. They don't make any money and the vast majority of the students don't give two craps about it.
Yea, D1 runners are faster than D3. Easy argument. Argue for why D1 should even exist. That'll be a lot harder.
DOUCHE ALERT
As a DI runner who just missed out on running NCAA's a few times on the track I often reflect back thinking for me I may have actually developed better as a runner at a D2/D3 school where I would have likely qualified multiple times for nationals, possibly contented for a national title, and definitely would have learned and grown from those championship atmosphere opportunities I missed out on in DI.
I think that's why you see a number of D2/D3 guys and girls excelling at the next level, as they grew from those championship race opportunities, not to mention a likely chip on their shoulder in wanting to kick some former D1 asses.
Now as a HS coach I encourage kids to go where they can develop, don't get fixated on a level. Like myself in HS, many are stuck on having to go to a D1 school and shy away from D2/D3 schools from some town they've never heard of. I know I did. However, many mid-tier D1 athletes would likely benefit greatly from being at one of those schools.
:)
Most of the D3 people aren't really answering the question. Asking a secondary question does not answer the first one. Many others seem to be defensive which makes me think that they really didn't feel successful competing in D3. The bottom line is that most D3 athletes would have loved to be better so that they could have competed a the D1 level. Otherwise they aren't trying.
Answer please wrote:
Most of the D3 people aren't really answering the question. Asking a secondary question does not answer the first one. Many others seem to be defensive which makes me think that they really didn't feel successful competing in D3. The bottom line is that most D3 athletes would have loved to be better so that they could have competed a the D1 level. Otherwise they aren't trying.
DOUCHE ALERT
Answer please wrote:
Most of the D3 people aren't really answering the question. Asking a secondary question does not answer the first one. Many others seem to be defensive which makes me think that they really didn't feel successful competing in D3. The bottom line is that most D3 athletes would have loved to be better so that they could have competed a the D1 level. Otherwise they aren't trying.
As a former D3 runner here, I don't think any D3 runners think they are any better than the best D1 teams.
That being said, as a good D3 team, we often beat weak and mid-level D1 teams.
Looking back though, I do wish I went to a big D1 school and ran club XC/Track. Similar benefits to D3 with lower costs and more educational opportunity.