Sub 1:10 Half Marathon Training

Smoove: training through races and still performing decently well is always a good sign. You’ll most likely have the weather on your side come Houston and the people to run with, so maybe sub 1:10 is an outside possibility. Although, I must agree, it is a bit aggressive of a goal with 6 weeks out. At least you know you should be good for low to mid 1:10 with 5 more weeks of training from now. Please continue to keep us updated!

1 2 3 Green: Good effort and try! Maybe bumping the mileage a bit and going out more conservative will would’ve gotten you to the low 1:11’s. Doesn’t sound like you had the best weather as well. Either way, thanks for letting us know how it went! If you’re looking for a fast half, there’s Naples on 01/14, which I’m doing, as well as Gasparilla in Tampa towards the end of February. I’m not sure how far away you’re from those places…

12/04-12/10:

M: 11 miles @ 7:15 pace

T: 2-mile warm-up, 6-mile tempo @ 5:30 pace. Splits: 5:32, 5:27, 5:32, 5:29, 5:30, 5:28. 3-mile cool down. Total: 11 miles. Longest and fastest tempo so far. Still not in the 5:20s, but I’ll take every little improvement I can get.

W: 11 miles @ 7:10 pace

Th: 2-mile warm-up. 10x800m @ 2:28 (5K pace) w/1:30 rest. Splits: 2:31, 2:28, 2:26, 2:27, 2:28, 2:28, 2:28, 2:28, 2:27, 2:27. 3-mile cool down. Total: 10 miles

F: 8 miles @ 7:16 pace

Sa: I paced my girlfriend for a 5K time trial and did a mile warm-up with her. I ran 6 miles afterwards @ 7:26 pace. Total: 10 miles (of which only 6 miles were at an “ok” pace).

Su: 16 miles @ 6:31 pace. Cold front hit. Woke up to 50 degrees. Great running weather and ran with 2 guys. Haven’t ran a long run with someone in years, so that was a nice change. Progression run starting @ 7:18 and getting to the 6:0X’s the last 4 miles. Not my fastest long run, but felt much easier than before.

Weekly total: 73-77 miles (depending if you count the Saturday’s time trial and warmup)

I’m hoping to run a good longer-interval workout this week since I haven’t done one in a while. I’m still keeping the mileage at mid-70’s with the long run at 16 miles. Does anyone have any other insights considering the prior weeks? The last big hard workout will be between 01/01-01/03.

Quick question: what shoes do you guys use for your longer races? I’ve done a long run and 2 tempos in the Nike Zoom Flyknit and had planned to use those for the half, but I’m just not in love with them. They don’t have a “fast feeling” to them as I would like. I’ve also don’t like the way the shoe wraps around the ankle. I just ordered the Nike Zoom Fly and Nike Streak 6 to see which of the 3 shoes I prefer the most. I’ve only raced/training in the Nike Streaks since 2007for 5Ks and workouts. I tried the Saucony Type A years ago and found them to be too soft and unresponsive, but I’m sure they’ve changed drastically over the years. If the other 2 shoes I ordered aren’t significantly better, I’ll just stick to the Flyknits.

what shoe is the nike zoom flyknit? I think you're missing a word. the flyknit streak?

anyway, the streak LT 3is not enough shoe (for me) for 13.1 miles. I'd wear it up to 10k. I did a 5k turkey trot in it and my calves were sore for a week (didn't do any speedwork for months before, which probably was the main issue). oops, just realized you said streak 6, not streak LT. why do they all have such similar names?

I have the nike lunar racer (don't recall the model but bought it new in 2016 from nike store). maybe the 4th edition. It's 6oz, and would be great for a half. the zoom fly is 8.4oz, kinda heavy in my opinion and probably not your best choice.

the zoom elite 9 is also great for 13.1/26.2. 8.2oz and gets less attention but I loved it.

I have raced in the Adios Boost from the 5k through the marathon and have been really happy with it. I used to think they were pricey, then the 4%s came out and make them seem like bargain basement flats.

I think you are right, sub 1:10 is too aggressive a goal for me, but I still have not quite ruled it out - "One oh something" just sounds much faster than "One ten something." But we'll see - the good news is that I know I can at least go out at that pace and not completely blow up. My big workout last week was 2 up; 3 x 3200 (10:38 average, but I was all over the board) with 2:00 rest; 7.5 easy. I did it on Saturday and it was windy and it about broke me, especially having gone 12.75 the night before.

That 6 mile tempo may not have been in the 5:20s, but it was 33 minutes or so long, so you get a pass there - that is a strong tempo effort.

Smoove wrote:

"One oh something" just sounds much faster than "One ten something."

It's actually better than that, because once you're under 1:10, you can forget the hour and just use total minutes. Sounds way better.

The streak 6 is a good shoe and I like it. Firm and responsive. Feels fast but still has an 8mm drop, helps my calves hold up over a HM. Two complaints though: 1) it is that it is extremely narrow in the forefoot. I have to keep the lacing fairly loose. 2) because it's so narrow and the upper is so thin, it has a tendency to develop holes at the sides or end of the toes. Lots of reports of holes within 100 miles. Mine have about 120 and my pinky toe is about to poke through.

I am considering trying the adidas adios. I train in the adidas boston so they might be a good fit.

The Bostons and the Adios are so similar, that you should really like the Adios. The Adios is a little snugger in the toebox. If you have wide feet, that might present a challenge, otherwise it should be a solid option.

I like the streak 6s but have the same issue. I’ve blown through the front outter edge of every pair. I switched to the NB 1400. Zoom elites and fly are too much shoe for racing.

One thing to note about the boost is that it has the plastic piece under the arch which is meant to help with the toe to heel transition. My experience is that if you like shoes without plastic under the arch (streak, fly, 1400, sketchers) you may not like a shoe with the plastic. My 0.02.

Solid tempo. The 800 was equally if not more impressive. Off of 90 second rest you ran sub 5:00 pace for 5 miles. Are you really tired going into your tempo runs? Maybe the tempo workouts are too close to your long runs. I’m surprised they aren’t faster given your interval workouts and 5k race times.

I really think you should work on improving your continious hard efforts in the long term. You may undertrained aerobically. There probably isn’t time to do this before your half though.

Before the half I’d recommend long intervals at half pace on the road, not track. Try to add volume and lessen the recovery ratio between now and your last hard workout. Continue doing I pace workouts but keep those to 3 miles of repeats total.

After the half you should aim to extend your 5:30 pace runs to 8 miles or so and then increase the pace from there. Alternate those with shorter 4-5 mile tempos at faster than 10M pace.

@Reed: yup, I meant to type Nike Zoom Flyknit Streak. I figured the Flyknit Streaks would be comparable to the Streak LT that I’m used to, so I went with them originally. I tried on the Zoom Fly at a Nike store and it felt very fast, but I’ll see if the added weight is an issue for me. I read the reviews on runningwarehouse for all 3 shoes and they seem hit or miss for some people. Some reviews did mention the Streak 6 had wearing and tearing issues with the upper as well as the narrowness. I have thin feet, so I’m hoping the latter isn’t an issue.

I haven’t considered the Zoom Elite or the Adios Boost, but if all 3 shoes don’t cut it for me, I’ll consider them as well.

@Smoove: solid workout last week. That’s pretty much what I want to do this week – 3x2 miles around HP pace w/about 2-3mins rest. I’ll probably leave the rest at 2mins, taking heyyo’s suggestion of shorter rest. I had planned to this this on Thursday instead of incorporating it into the long run, but I might switch it up. I’m jumping into Dan Martin’s workout today – 3-mile warm-up, 4-mile tempo @ 5:25-5:30, 1 mile jog followed by 1 mile of 1min on/1min off, 2-mile cool down. With it being a shorter tempo, I’ll try to get closer to HP pace.

@heyyo: I tried the NB 1400 on the same day I tried the Saucony Type A years ago. I didn’t mind the shoes back then, but had the OG Nike Streaks, which I preferred, so I didn’t buy them. I might reconsider them now though. Thinking back on my prior tempos, I did feel a bit tired going into them, but I remember I didn’t have the best weather conditions either, so who knows. Looking at the timing of the tempos, some of them have been run with 1 day rest in between the long run, some with 2 days rest in between the long run. I’ve done 4 mile tempos in prior training blocks @ 5:25-5:30 with the same training structure, so I’m not sure why it’s taking me so long to respond this time around. I’m sure I’m undertrained aerobically, as you mentioned, so I’ll keep that in mind going forward. The 10x800s last week and 4xmile @5:20 a few weeks ago were both on a concrete track. But you’re right, there’s nothing better to simulate a road race than running on an actual road (elevation change, turns, footing, etc.).

This is how the tentative week will go:

M: 11 miles @ 7:02 pace (a bit faster than usual, but the weather was cool last night)

T: 3-mile warm-up, 4-mile tempo @ 5:25-5:30, 1 mile jog followed by 1 mile of 1min on/1min off, 2-mile cool down. Total: 11 miles.

W: 11-12 miles (easier than Monday’s run, maybe in the 7:teens).

Th: 2-mile warm-up, 3x2-miles @ 5:20 pace w/2mins jog rest, 2-mile cool down. Total: 10 miles

F: 8 miles easy (I have a company holiday party on this day, so depending on how the night goes, I might move the long run to Sunday morning vs Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon isn’t an option for me).

Sa: 16-mile long run or another 8 miles easy

Su: 16-mile long or 8 miles easy

Weekly total: 75-76 miles

Ideally, I would like a different-paced workout vs having both workouts at HP pace. Perhaps a 10K-paced workout or a ladder touching different paces. I’m not sure yet, that’s why I might switch up Thursday and incorporate it into Saturday’s long run. Any thoughts on this?

I'd switch the thursday workout to a ladder. you've gotta be bored of 3x2mi by now

Doing the same workouts can get monotonous, but sticking with a particular emphasis often makes a lot of sense, particularly when the goal race falls pretty far towards one end of the spectrum like the half marathon does. But even then it is nice to switch up the particulars a little.

Below are my quality days for the weeks leading up to a recent half marathon. You will see that there is a touch of vo2maintenenace in there (week of 10/30, Turkey Trot), but everything else is a variation on the threshold theme, whether it was done as 3 x 2 miles, 7 x 1 mile, 5k/3k/2k or as straight tempo runs. I do like to vary it from time to time, but I also like to come back to the same workouts from time to time to see how things have progressed. Although I am getting fitter, my first 3 x 2 mile workout and my first 10 miler with 20 minutes of tempo were both better than my subsequent ones, so this is not a foolproof measure of fitness by any stretch (the later workouts were done at night after a stressful day at work (tempo run) or in tough weather conditions (3 x 3200), so you need to look beyond times sometimes).

10/16

10 miles with 20 minute tempo run (5:27.7) in middle

15.25 easy

10/23

5000m/3000m/2000m at threshold pace with 3:00, 2:00 rest (all between 3:16 and 3:19 per k)

6 x :20 hill sprints

10/30

5 x 1000 at 3:05 with 3:00 active rest

11/6

3 x 3200 at 10:32-10:33 with 2:00 rest

14 miles easy

11/13

7 x 1600 @ 5:19 with 1:00 rest

10 miles with 20 minute tempo run (5:30) in middle

11/20

Turkey Trot 5k (15:41)

15.5 easy

11/27

4 x 1200 at 5:20 pace with 1:00 rest

Half Marathon (1:11:10)

12/11-12/17:

M: 11 miles @ 7:03 pace

T: 3-mile warm-up, 4-mile tempo in 21: 21 (5:20 pace). Splits: 5:22, 5:21, 5:19, 5:17, 1 mile jog in about 6:55, then 1 mile of 1min off, 1min fartlek. Fartlek paces: 1min on @ 5:07, 1min off @ 6:34, 1min on @ 5:01, 1min off @ 6:41, 1min on @ 5:01, 1min off @ 6:46 (total was 1 mile in about 5:38). 2-mile cool down. 5:20 pace felt comfortable enough, but if I must be honest with myself, I think I could’ve held that pace for about 9-10 miles. After that, I’m not sure how well I would’ve held up. Total: 11 miles

W: 11 miles @ 6:57 pace

Th: 2-mile warm-up, 6xmile @ 10K pace (~5:09) w/1:30 rest. I started feeling it after the 2nd mile repeat, so I decided to call it a day after the 5th one. I could’ve done the last one, but I figured less is more sometimes. Splits: 5:08, 5:11, 5:06, 5:11, 5:07. 3-mile cool down. The 3 days leading to this workout were decent paces/effort, so I’m sure the days were catching up to me. Total: 10 miles

F: 8 miles @ 7:00 pace

Sa: 8 miles @ 7:11 pace

Su: 16 miles @ 6:29 pace w/the last 6 @ 6:14, 6:23, 6:16, 6:03, 6:05, 6:10, 5:58.

Weekly total: 75 miles

Last 2 weeks of “hard” training, and then I’ll begin to taper.

Quick shoe review:

I ran the tempo in the Flyknit Streaks, the mile repeats in the Streak 6, and the long run in the Zoom Fly. Both the Streak 6 and Zoom Fly ran too small (I’m typically a size 10 in flats, but I would need a 10.5 for these shoes). The Streak 6 felt light and extremely responsive. I like the feel around the ankle vs the Flyknit Streaks. The Zoom Fly felt great, but as Reed mentioned, it was too much of a shoe for me and it didn’t feel like a racing flat. I can see myself using the Zoom Fly for maybe tempos or long runs, but would prefer something lighter and lower profiled, so I’ll probably be returning them. After running in the Streak 6, I believe I prefer them over the Flyknit Streaks, so I’ll probably be returning those as well. I’m going to do a few more workouts in the Streak 6 size 10.5 to make a final decision on the flats.

I was never in 70min shape, but probably 71min various times, and I'm wondering if you're doing your easy runs too fast. Maybe it's just me but even when I'm in great shape I rarely run faster than 7:10s for easy days. My runs were over rolling hills but nothing that would slow me down by more than a few seconds a mile on average. Some days I'd run 7:40s and even slower when doing shorter doubles.

Other than on that longer run where he was intentionally hammering a little, most of his easy runs seem to be right around 7:00 pace, plus or minus a few seconds. That doesn't seem too fast to me at all for a guy who is currently in about 15:20 5k shape.

I'm just trying to figure out why he has trouble with 5:20s being comfortable. If he's in only 15:20 shape as you say (which I doubt) then 5:20s is too hard for 13.1 anyway. When I was in 15:20 shape I couldn't do the workouts he is doing. My tempo pace was about 5:30 with some hills, so maybe 5:27s on flat, for 5-6 mile tempos. I was not capable of doing several mile repeats in 5:00-5:05 unless I had over 2min rest and only did up to 5 of them. Any more would've been possible but very difficult.

And at that time, as I said, 7:00s weren't that easy. Sure they're easy enough, but not truly recovery jogging.

You have to understand Smoove and company like to hammer on their training runs. There’s no reasoning with them. It’s a psychological need to prove something to themselves in training before they line up to race. Joshua may have the same mental framework.

I saw the race results where he ran under 15:25, so it is a legit time. If you use VDOT scores, a 15:20 5k is the equivalent of a 1:10:15 or so half, which is 5:21 pace. Daniels would put his easy distance pace in the 6:20 to 6:50 range, so he is actually running a bit easier than that on his easy days.

I think it is easy to take your own personal experiences and kind of let that limit your perspective some, but it is good to remember that we all have different bodies and won't have the same experiences. I am in 15:40/1:11:0 shape, and my easy days range from 6:50 to 7:15 most days, with one day last week being as slow as 7:38. I don't think that there are hard and fast rules that apply to everyone when it comes to easy distance pace. As long as you are feeling relaxed, able to comfortably maintain a conversation, and be recovered for your workout the next day, whether you run 6:50 or 7:40 is secondary.

To reed's point, there's a difference between recovery jogging and daily training pace.

I guess I was thinking he'd be in sub-15:20 shape in a 5000m, but I guess half marathons are on road so it makes more sense to use a road 5k which would be a bit slower than a 5000m.

let's forget about this "easy pace" discussion. it wasn't meant to be some contentious topic, I was just throwing out the idea that somebody should try doing slower easy runs if they can't diagnose why their workouts aren't going well.

Well, I think we certainly agree on this: easy days should be run easy enough to leave you recovered and ready to run your workout days at the proper pace. The rest is window dressing.