thejeff wrote:
Bleu wrote:
Why buy Boost-ish? Buy Adidas Boost.
2. The more companies get involved, the more progress and innovation we will see at lower prices. Capitalism, bruh.
Price drop? That'll never happen!
thejeff wrote:
Bleu wrote:
Why buy Boost-ish? Buy Adidas Boost.
2. The more companies get involved, the more progress and innovation we will see at lower prices. Capitalism, bruh.
Price drop? That'll never happen!
real world economist wrote:
thejeff wrote:
2. The more companies get involved, the more progress and innovation we will see at lower prices. Capitalism, bruh.
Price drop? That'll never happen!
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
theJeff wrote:
real world economist wrote:
Price drop? That'll never happen!
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
no, by that time Nike will have released the 8%
future times wrote:
theJeff wrote:
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
no, by that time Nike will have released the 8%
Exactly. Then the 8% will be $275ish, but the 4% should be half of that.
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
theJeff wrote:
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
I plan on getting the Turbo version of the Puma shoe. The lacing system looks a little more secure than the regular shoe.
Also went for a run in the Saucony Freedom ISO that arrived this week. The shoe overall might be the best shoe I have ever owned. Holy cow.
http://us.puma.com/en_US/pd/mega-nrgy-turbo-mens-running-shoes/pna190374.html?dwvar_pna190374_color=01#q=Nrgy&prefn1=genderName&prefv1=Mens&start=14theJeff wrote:
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
My friend/teammate runs in the DPR religiously... 50 mpw with almost no rotation and it holds up for about 2 seasons.
vivalarepublica wrote:
theJeff wrote:
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
I plan on getting the Turbo version of the Puma shoe. The lacing system looks a little more secure than the regular shoe.
Also went for a run in the Saucony Freedom ISO that arrived this week. The shoe overall might be the best shoe I have ever owned. Holy cow.
http://us.puma.com/en_US/pd/mega-nrgy-turbo-mens-running-shoes/pna190374.html?dwvar_pna190374_color=01#q=Nrgy&prefn1=genderName&prefv1=Mens&start=14
The Freedom is my favorite shoe in my rotation right now, with the odd caveat that I have removed the insoles and run directly on the Everrun midsole. It fits a half size wider and feels just a touch firmer, which I prefer.
Nearly 200 miles on it, and the midsole looks practically new. None of the wrinkling/compression that is par for EVA.
I can understand using the Saucony Freedom without the midsole, that TPU topsole is pretty substantial. It is a little tight overall, but I am in between size 10.5 and 11, so size 11 that runs a little small is perfect for me. Or size 10.5 that runs a little large.
vivalarepublica wrote:
I can understand using the Saucony Freedom without the midsole, that TPU topsole is pretty substantial. It is a little tight overall, but I am in between size 10.5 and 11, so size 11 that runs a little small is perfect for me. Or size 10.5 that runs a little large.
No you've gotta go Ultra Boost (though I might try the altra's).
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
vivalarepublica wrote:
I can understand using the Saucony Freedom without the midsole, that TPU topsole is pretty substantial. It is a little tight overall, but I am in between size 10.5 and 11, so size 11 that runs a little small is perfect for me. Or size 10.5 that runs a little large.
No you've gotta go Ultra Boost (though I might try the altra's).
But do they come at price lower than my car payment?
I’ve been thinking about the Boston 6 or Adios 3 for half marathons and longer. Not sure about the 10mm drop, though, because I’ve had some issues with various pains in high drop shoes and I’ve been killing my races in 4mm drop Saucony Fastwitch.
I have a question for wearers of the Altra One 2.5.
I'm a forefoot striker. I would use these for intervals and possibly 5k races. I'm currently running in the NB Zante V3, which is a 6mm drop shoe.
Will I be able to drop down to the zero drop in the One 2.5? I haven't tried zero drop shoes in about 6 years, but I didn't like the first generation of Altras.
I cannot answer the question about your ability to transition to zero drop. What I CAN tell you is that Altra has significantly stepped up their game in the past 18 months.
PS- Consider trying the Escalante as well if you are in the market for the 2.5.
theJeff wrote:
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
Actually, if it's just three other companies, then there's a good chance that they won't try to undercut Nike's prices. Pricing activity doesn't happen in a binary system where there's either a monopoly or competition.
Consider the hypothetical town with two gas stations across the street, both selling gas for $3.00/gallon. One raises his prices to $3.15. Two things can happen. Either the other station doesn't increase its price, in which case it takes substantially all of the business in town, and the first station is forced to go back to $3.00/gallon, or else the second station hikes its own prices to match. Then they both make more money, even without an explicit price-fixing agreement. Similar things happen in concentrated industries. Nike proves you can sell a shoe for $250. Now other shoe manufacturers start debuting their own $250 super-shoes.
Incidentally, the DOJ uses a very simple tool called the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index to evaluate how concentrated a market is when they're considering whether to challenge a proposed merger as anticompetitive. You just add up the squares of the market shares (expressed as a whole number) of all market participants. The higher the number, the more concentrated the market is. So if (hypothetically) Nike has 35% share, Adidas has 20%, Brooks has 15%, and Asics, Mizuno, and New Balance all have 10%, then the HHI for running shoes is 35^2+20^2+15^2+3x10^2=2150. That would be a "moderately" concentrated industry (between 1500 and 2500). You would expect to see some "price leadership" in such an industry, where one firm raises prices and others respond by raising their own.
800 dude wrote:
theJeff wrote:
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
Actually, if it's just three other companies, then there's a good chance that they won't try to undercut Nike's prices. Pricing activity doesn't happen in a binary system where there's either a monopoly or competition.
Consider the hypothetical town with two gas stations across the street, both selling gas for $3.00/gallon. One raises his prices to $3.15. Two things can happen. Either the other station doesn't increase its price, in which case it takes substantially all of the business in town, and the first station is forced to go back to $3.00/gallon, or else the second station hikes its own prices to match. Then they both make more money, even without an explicit price-fixing agreement. Similar things happen in concentrated industries. Nike proves you can sell a shoe for $250. Now other shoe manufacturers start debuting their own $250 super-shoes.
Incidentally, the DOJ uses a very simple tool called the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index to evaluate how concentrated a market is when they're considering whether to challenge a proposed merger as anticompetitive. You just add up the squares of the market shares (expressed as a whole number) of all market participants. The higher the number, the more concentrated the market is. So if (hypothetically) Nike has 35% share, Adidas has 20%, Brooks has 15%, and Asics, Mizuno, and New Balance all have 10%, then the HHI for running shoes is 35^2+20^2+15^2+3x10^2=2150. That would be a "moderately" concentrated industry (between 1500 and 2500). You would expect to see some "price leadership" in such an industry, where one firm raises prices and others respond by raising their own.
...Then you include the fact that running shoe companies are allowed to require and enforce minimum advertised pricing contracts with retailers and it isn't technically "price fixing" and we have a situation where $10 of raw materials becomes $250 shoes, and any shoe company that tries to sell the same tech at half the price is seen as an "inferior product" pretty quickly.
800 dude wrote:
theJeff wrote:
So, you think that once three other companies produce a shoe that competes with the 4% for $100 less than Nike currently offers the 4% at, Nike will just keep the price at $250?
Actually, if it's just three other companies, then there's a good chance that they won't try to undercut Nike's prices. Pricing activity doesn't happen in a binary system where there's either a monopoly or competition.
Consider the hypothetical town with two gas stations across the street, both selling gas for $3.00/gallon. One raises his prices to $3.15. Two things can happen. Either the other station doesn't increase its price, in which case it takes substantially all of the business in town, and the first station is forced to go back to $3.00/gallon, or else the second station hikes its own prices to match. Then they both make more money, even without an explicit price-fixing agreement. Similar things happen in concentrated industries. Nike proves you can sell a shoe for $250. Now other shoe manufacturers start debuting their own $250 super-shoes.
Incidentally, the DOJ uses a very simple tool called the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index to evaluate how concentrated a market is when they're considering whether to challenge a proposed merger as anticompetitive. You just add up the squares of the market shares (expressed as a whole number) of all market participants. The higher the number, the more concentrated the market is. So if (hypothetically) Nike has 35% share, Adidas has 20%, Brooks has 15%, and Asics, Mizuno, and New Balance all have 10%, then the HHI for running shoes is 35^2+20^2+15^2+3x10^2=2150. That would be a "moderately" concentrated industry (between 1500 and 2500). You would expect to see some "price leadership" in such an industry, where one firm raises prices and others respond by raising their own.
I believe that your theory is true because ASICS released the $250 dad shoe. The best stuff for the same price as Nike.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8630423theJeff wrote:
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
Got in the PUMAs today. As expected, they are pretty awful. The upper is cheaply made, and the midsole feels completely dead compared to the Freedoms and Escalantes. Oh well; free return shipping... next!
theJeff wrote:
theJeff wrote:
I have a few shoes coming in this week to try out. Planning on sending all but one pair back.
1. Puma Mega NRGY - low expectations, but features full TPU (NRGY ~ Boost) midsole and supposedly wideish toebox. 10mm drop more than I am used to
2. Adidas Pureboost DPR - high expectations. 8mm drop more than I am used to, but better than most in the Boost lineup. Also supposed to have a very roomy toebox. Reviews range from Love Affair to Meh.
3. Saucony Kinvara 8 - Only has a TPU (Everrun) TOPsole, not full midsole... looking forward to seeing if I can tell the difference.
4. Altra Vanish R - already have the return label printed, after reading the “way too tight and flimsy” reviews on here, but I will still give them a look. (Only have a TPU shank/plate, mostly EVA).
Updates coming.
Got in the PUMAs today. As expected, they are pretty awful. The upper is cheaply made, and the midsole feels completely dead compared to the Freedoms and Escalantes. Oh well; free return shipping... next!
Sweet, 2 pairs of shoes in the same day!
The Adidas Pureboost DPRs will be a keeper, I think. I can definitely feel the extra drop (8mm) compared to my normal 4-0mm drop shoes, which also means that the mid/forefoot has a little less cushion than it could... but the Boost feels great (Everrun and Boost feel very similar in their springyness, whereas the Puma felt dead), and the shoe fits much wider than your typical Adidas (this is the first Adidas I have been able to wear due to most models fitting very narrow, in my opinion). Knit upper gives a little, but not crazy stretchy like the Escalante (a win for the DPR). Not a home run in my book, but definitely a stand up double if you get them on sale like I did.
Thanks for the info!
I guess that will save me the trouble of ordering and returning the Puma shoes. We can cross that off the list.
The Pureboost are probably the only Adidas shoes that I would buy for daily training. I just don’t like the heel-toe drop and subsequent giant drop of all their other models.
I’ve noticed that the specifications of Adidas shoes on their website and on Running Warehouse are consistently different. Adidas lists higher stack heights and greater weights than what is listed on Running Warehouse. I don’t have any of the shoes, so I don’t know which source is more accurate.
Went for a good run in the Saucony Freedom yesterday. They definitely have a different feel than what I am accustomed too. My pace was consistently faster than I wanted it to be, so I don’t know if that was the shoes or my excitement about a new pair with wind at my back. The outsole is pretty grippy as well, it did well on patches of ice.
If Saucony could make a similar shoe they shaved off a couple ounces (and there definitely is potential to shave off a couple ounces), I would be interested in something similar as a racing flat.
vivalarepublica wrote:
Thanks for the info!
I guess that will save me the trouble of ordering and returning the Puma shoes. We can cross that off the list.
The Pureboost are probably the only Adidas shoes that I would buy for daily training. I just don’t like the heel-toe drop and subsequent giant drop of all their other models.
I’ve noticed that the specifications of Adidas shoes on their website and on Running Warehouse are consistently different. Adidas lists higher stack heights and greater weights than what is listed on Running Warehouse. I don’t have any of the shoes, so I don’t know which source is more accurate.
Went for a good run in the Saucony Freedom yesterday. They definitely have a different feel than what I am accustomed too. My pace was consistently faster than I wanted it to be, so I don’t know if that was the shoes or my excitement about a new pair with wind at my back. The outsole is pretty grippy as well, it did well on patches of ice.
If Saucony could make a similar shoe they shaved off a couple ounces (and there definitely is potential to shave off a couple ounces), I would be interested in something similar as a racing flat.
Keep your eyes peeled:
1. Altra Escalante Racer
2. Reebok Floatride Fast
Both Summer 2018